First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your playing days?
I grew up in what most would call poverty. I was a country kid – an at-risk kid, though I didn’t really know that at the time. That background gave me the desire to connect with at-risk kids as I got older. I ended up after football working with at-risk youth as a drug and alcohol counselor and social worker. I also worked for 25 years as the City of Decatur Director of Youth Services. I retired in 2020 – I was able to reach and help a lot of young people over that time.
How did football help you?
Football gave me the ability to build bridges and connect with people. You connect with people in the locker room when you play football – that’s what you do in a team sport. You learn to do that and that helped me as a counselor.
Now, since I retired, I’ve worked as a leadership coach, helping organizations with leadership training. I work with the Eagle Center for Leadership as well as doing some work with pubic schools, working to help parents in those city schools.
Do you watch football now?
That ’87 season was hurtful and disappointing because of the strike and how things went after it ended. After I was released by Pittsburgh I tried out for Tampa Bay but that wasn’t the Tampa Bay of today – it was a disaster. The team was in disarray.
At that point I was ready to let it go. I didn’t even want to watch football for years after that. It didn’t sit well with me how it all ended. But I found my niche after football. I saw the impact I was making and I was able to let it go. Now I am back to enjoying the game again.
What made you so upset about what happened that strike season?
They told the guys that made the team before the strike that we would be kept on once the strike ended. But that wasn’t the case. Guys that crossed the line and played during the strike were kept on the team over guys that made the team before the strike. If I knew that I never would have gone on strike in the first place. I was a first year guy just trying to make it. I would have stayed on the team had I known.
How did you end up in Pittsburgh?
I was drafted by the Bears in ’86 but was released. One of our preseason games was against the Steelers and I guess they liked the way I played on special teams then. In ’87 I got a call from Dallas and Pittsburgh. My agent said Pittsburgh would be a better choice for me since they brought in less guys in the preseason.
When I got there I had to show them I could tackle and play safety and play on special teams. I did that well. I remember Chuck Noll betting other coaches on special teams that no one could block me. I was the gunner and just trying to make the team and I guess he liked what he saw of my play.
Did anyone help mentor you once you got there?
Donnie Shell did a good job of that. Tony Dungy was the position coach and coordinator. He did a good job of teaching players the playbook. He would give us little tests to be sure we knew what we were doing.
What did he and Donnie show you specifically that helped you most?
Most of it was about studying the playbook. I came from a small Division II school – our playbook was half the size of the Steelers playbook. They taught us that our bread and butter was knowing the playbook.
Donnie – he was a good character guy – a good Christian.. He talked a lot about how important it was to carry yourself well and to be a person of good character.
Any memories stand out most to you of you on-field time there?
When Greg Lloyd got injured – he had a significant leg injury. That was the first time at any level of playing for me that I had seen an injury that significant. I’ll always remember that.
Also, a particular practice stands out – this is about John Stallworth. We were scrimmaging and I was playing safety. I was having a hot practice – intercepting passes and making plays on the ball all day. Well they throw the ball to John and I jump up and intercept it. Just then I heard John hit the ground and start yelling. I thought “Oh no. I hurt John Stallworth!” You had to be careful with icons like John! In Chicago we had a rule – you never hit Walter Payton. That stuck with me.
Well, it turns out John was ok. He was just mad a first year guy like me made a play on him!
Any other memories stand out?
I came from a little country town – the population was maybe 2,000 at most. Going to a big city from that – being away from country life – that was an eye-opening experience.
Delton Hall and I became close – Lord have mercy! I wasn’t as wild as he was! But having that connection with someone – someone to hang out with – that helped me a lot to adapt.
How did the time actually end there for you?
When I walked into the Steelers locker room when I was first signed I remember seeing safety Dave Edwards working out on a machine, strengthening his hurt knee. Later on I injured my knee playing the Giants. During the strike I’d go in to rehab it– it wasn’t too serious but I wanted to make sure I was at full strength when we all came back. Well, when I was there I saw Thomas Everett come in. I wasn’t sure what to make of him then.
Well, it turns out that just as they replaced Dave Edwards at the time with me, they did the same thing to me with Thomas Everett! I guess there was something about us working on our knees! Once you do that you get replaced by the next guy!
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
