First, can you let readers know a bit about what you’ve been doing since your playing days?

Well, I was traded to Pittsburgh by the Giants in 1959 – I was cut a couple of years later and went to Canada. I played for fourteen years then came back to Ohio. I wanted to figure out what I was going to do with my life. Then I found a job coaching high school football for five years. My coach in Canada found out I was coaching and asked me to come up and be his defensive coordinator, so I went up and coached the Hamilton Tigercats.

What coaches influenced your coaching style and why?

John Zimmerman, my high school coach, was terrific. And of course, Woody Hayes at Ohio State. I adopted a lot of his philosophies. But Tom Landry helped me the most – he was the defensive coordinator then for the Giants. He spent a lot of time with me. I always played on the outside there as a defensive back. In 1959, he asked me if I’d try moving to safety. I said I wasn’t really sure I’d like to, so he told me to think about it. I went up to him a couple of days later and said I wanted to stay at cornerback. Two weeks later, I was traded to Pittsburgh! That was a big mistake!

So you want and played for Buddy Parker. What was Buddy like to play for?

I liked Buddy – I enjoyed myself there in Pittsburgh.  My secondary coach there was Harry Gilmore – he and I got along well. When you were a guy that they traded for or got after being cut from another team, if another veteran becomes available, you’re usually out of a job. That is what happened to me – they picked up a defensive back from Washington that was cut, and I was out of a job. That’s when I went to Canada.

Who were some of the guys on those Steelers teams you were close with?

One of my good friends was Johnny Reger – he went to West Virginia.  Frank Terasovic – he and Johnny were true local guys and good friends. And naturally Buddy Dial – he and I roomed together.

Who were the biggest characters?

Bobby Layne was a character – I’m sure you heard a lot of good stories about him. I remember when we were playing the Bears – Doug Atkins kept knocking Layne on his butt – bloodied him. So Layne tells us to let Atkins come free next time, and he throws the ball at Atkins, right in the mouth! Well, Doug killed Layne after that.

When we flew back to Pittsburgh after the game, Parker put the whole team on waivers, except for a few of the better players. I think that was the first time that ever happened. He pulled them back shortly after, but I think five guys got cut because of that game. We should have won that game.

Who were some of the toughest guys you faced then?

When I was with the Giants, we played Baltimore in an exhibition game in Florida. I had to cover Raymond Berry in that game – he was a fantastic receiver. He caught nine passes on me. I didn’t realize….well, Tom Landry came up to me after the game and said I did a helluva job. I said he caught nine passes! But he told me – for only sixteen yards! They threw a lot of quick outs then…

When I was in Pittsburgh we played Philadelphia in Pittsburgh. They threw a long post pattern to Tom McDonald – this was when the goalposts were still on the field. He was in front of me- I was able to hit the ball with my left hand, but the ball hit the goalpost and just as it was in his hands I pushed him into the goalpost and he hit it and knocked himself out. His teammates were not happy with me! But Stautner and Tom “the Bomb” Tracy covered my back and made sure I was ok.

You were a kicker in college – did you kick in the NFL as well?

The Giants had Don Chandler as a punter and Pat Summerall as their kicker but I backed both of them up. In Pittsburgh I did the punting. Bobby Layne did the kicking – he kicked all the field goals under thirty yards and I kicked the field goals over thirty. I tried a lot of 40-plus field goals…my percentages of course weren’t very high.

I did run back punts and kicks too. I loved to return kicks. When we played the Giants in New York I had my best day. I intercepted two passes, blocked a field goal, and returned a punt for a touchdown. They came up to me after the game and told me they made a big mistake trading me!

What was playing like for you in the CFL?

I had never been to Canada before in my life. The field was so different – it was 110 yards long with twenty-yard endzones. It was sixty-five yards wide – the field was mammoth – like a soccer field. It took a lot of adjustment. You could have six guys in motion at a time – it was like a Chinese fire drill! But I did adapt. I did the punting, kicking, played defensive back and even played some on offense. It was a different game…

What are your thoughts about the game and players today?

I’m not taking anything away from the players today – they are fantastic athletes.  But I wonder what’s in their minds sometimes. They are more interested in themselves versus the team concept like when I played. I doubt that is the way it is today. I think money has a lot to do with it. If I’m a coach making hundreds of thousands and a player is making millions, why are they going to listen to me? It doesn’t make sense.

What advice would you give players entering the game today?

If you get into professional football, you are playing with the best players in the United States. Some guys are awed to be around the greatest players. But coming out of college, you can’t think about that. Just do what you can.

Vince Lombardi…I remember when we were training in Salem, Oregon one year. As a rookie, you don’t have any money to go out after practice. We just sat around the apartments where we stayed at near the university. Well, Lombardi would come around and talk to us. He said that if a veteran was in your spot on this team, it’ll be tough to make the team. If not, you have a good chance. That told me a lot. I did crack it open and made the team, but it told me you can only do your best

It takes the pressure off?

Exactly. Look at Johnny Unitas. He got cut form Pittsburgh, and he went to Baltimore and then he was a wizard! It just shows you….

I really enjoyed my time in Pittsburgh. I was born and raised twenty miles away – on the other side of the river in Ohio. I was always a fan of the Steelers. I was sad to see my friend and college teammate Dick LeBeau leave. I played with him at Ohio State. I may have to root for another team now!

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