First, can you let readers know a bit about what you’ve been doing with yourself since your playing days?

Well, I did a lot of substitute teaching when I got out. But I wasn’t cut out to be a teacher. I didn’t have the patience. I was too used to knocking heads – it wasn’t for me. I liked to work with my hands and like to be outside. If I could I’d get up at eight and work in the yard all day.

I also tended bar after teaching for twelve or thirteen years at the Eagles Club in New Castle, PA.

You were drafted by The Redskins in 1958 but found yourself in Pittsburgh that year. What happened? 

I was drafted in the eleventh round and went through training camp with the Redskins. I was called in by the owner – he said that as long as he’s the owner I’d be a part of the team. They liked my development and work habits, he said. That gave me some confidence. Then that week, right before the last exhibition game, I got a call from them telling me I was placed on waivers. Evidently some guy came back from the service and he had some professional experience, so they decided to go with him instead of a rookie.

I went home dejected – the guy talked form both sides of his mouth. I  got a call from Buddy Parker – the coach of the Steelers – he asked me to play for them and to go up to Palo Alto where they were practicing before their last preseason game. They had a ticket waiting for me at the airport, he said, if I decide to use it. I wasn’t sure if I wanted to play then. I spoke to my parents – I was in the best shape of my life, so what did I have to lose? So, that’s what I did.

How did that go?

I didn’t play a regular down in that last exhibition game – just on the punting team and kick returns. When the game was over, they always had the feedbag for players out to feed them – to make sure they stick around rather than going out all over the place. Buddy there told me I better stay in shape because he was activating me for the season. And I played the whole year with them.

My crucial time with them is when we played the Giants. I started against Rosie Greer and had a good game against him. That’s why the Giants traded for me. We had two decent guards on our team – Sandusky and Nesby. Both were hard-nosed guys. Nesby got busted up though before the Giants game so I started the last three games.

How was Buddy Parker as a coach?

Buddy was alright. You never got to know him that well. He was a difficult guy to get to know. He didn’t play favorites – well, except for Bobby Layne.

What do you think of the NFL today?

I wish I was making the money then that they make today! I don’t begrudge them – but I was just as good of a caliber player then as some of those guys today and we got paid peanuts. The size is the big difference now. They are bigger, stronger, and faster. Back when I started, you maybe had two or three 300 pound guys on a team. Now, the whole line is over 300 pounds. They wouldn’t look at you today if you were under 300.

You changed teams five times over your eleven year career – traded three times. How hard was that for you?

It wasn’t hard for me- it was harder for my wife. The moving and packing…and the cleaning wherever we went. Once I was traded to Detroit and was there only one and a half weeks before being traded to Washington. We played a double-header then – something the NFL was trying then.  I was traded to Detroit and a week later in the double-header we played the Redskins. The Redskins coach – McPeak – was from New Castle and told me not to get too comfortable in Detroit because he was going to trade for me. And he did. I didn’t even get to know all of the coaches and players in Detroit. It worked out for me…but it was bad for my wife….

Who were some of the toughest guys you faced then?

Bob Lilly – I put him in the Hall of Fame! He was tough to block and a good, clean player. He was hard-nosed and relentless. He just kept coming and was never dirty. Not like Big Daddy Lipscomb. He would spit at you, kick you…..He’d do anything – he didn’t care about you. Roger Brown – the defensive tackle in Detroit – he was a 300 pounder. A big, strong guy and hard to handle. I did my best against him. Another smaller guy was Henry Jordan in Green Bay. He was a great tackle – I wrestled him in college. He was strong and quick.

Any good memories to share of your playing days?

There weren’t that many moments. We’d all go to our watering hole on Route 51.

I do remember – the veteran players in Pittsburgh always tried to have parties for the rookies – tried to get them drunk. A lot of them – like my roommate – didn’t drink. But I remember they threw a big party and Bobby Layne came. They had a band and Bobby didn’t like the band – didn’t like the music they were playing. So, he fired them right there and got his own band to play for the rest of the night. That showed how much pull he had….

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