First, can you let us know a bit about what you did with yourself after the NFL?

After being cut by the Steelers I returned to Oklahoma University to finish my degree. Then the following year I went with the Dallas Texans and played there two years, becoming a two-time All Pro Bowler with them. When the Texans moved to Kansas City to become the Kansas City Chiefs, I retired from football but remained involved helping with the transition of the team. At the same time I joined the national staff of Fellowship of Christian Athletes, whose offices were also in Kansas City. I have been vice-
president of an insurance agency, developed youth homes to house and work with troubled youth, worked with a nationwide prison ministry, built and operated an adult retreat center, and eventually went back to Fellowship of Christian Athletes, finally retiring in 2002.

I fully retired six years ago, though I serve as the Chaplain for the Dallas NFL Players Association Alumni Chapter.

When you were drafted by the Steelers in 1958 – what did you think? Were you happy to be drafted by the Steelers?

I was excited to be drafted! I was drafted in round three – my teammate in Oklahoma was Clendon Thomas – he was drafted by the Rams and later ended up playing for the Steelers too. I made him great! That’s all us offensive linemen do! Clendon was a wonderful guy – he was the one who told me about Big Daddy Lipscomb – the story of how he died…

How prepared were you for the NFL game, coming out of college?

I went from the college All-Star game to starting guard in the NFL in one week. The All Star game really helped me. We scrimmaged against the Chicago Bears, and they were the dirtiest, cheapest team I ever played against in my life! That helped me prepare for the NFL!

In Oklahoma, we were all about speed. I only weighed 212 pounds coming out of college. Pass protection – coming in and out of your stance – that was all new to me. I had to learn the position all over again. Learning that early helped me immensely as a pulling guard. It gave me a better idea of what to expect and showed me I needed to put on weight. I ate like a pig and got my weight up to 265 pounds!

When I got to camp I saw that Ernie Stautner wasn’t there – and I asked where he was. I wanted to meet him and go up against him. They told me he didn’t come in until the last week before the season started. When he did, we practiced in pads, and I went to block him, and he hit me with a left forearm that knocked me right back where I was…

You suffered a pretty bad injury that season…

In ’58, I had my head split open by teammate Mike Sandusky, in practice. We didn’t practice with helmets on in those days. Earl Morrall called the play, and Mike and I both pulled. One of us in the wrong direction – we argued about that for years and still haven’t resolved who was wrong! Well, we collided into one another and my head was split open. We had the same doctor then who used to sew up the NHL guys when they were still on the ice. I couldn’t get my helmet on after that, my head was so swollen.

Buddy Parker was your coach then – what did you think of him?

I liked him, but boy he was so superstitious. Lots of superstitions – but he was a great guy.

What are some of the experiences you remember most about your time in Pittsburgh?

As an offensive guard, we didn’t have much on the field going on. We’d face a mean linebacker or two, like Sam Huff.

I remember how many good quarterbacks we had. I was good friends with Jack Kemp and Len Dawson and we cut them both  my first year as a Steeler, in 1958!

Tank Younger was our running back. He was older, and I remember him in the shower complaining about how he was supposed to compete in his thirties against all of those guys in their twenties. Back then, I actually used to run with the running backs – I was too fast for the linemen…

You were cut after your rookie season – what happened?

I was cut after the last exhibition game in ’59 – before the first game. I don’t know – maybe I didn’t go out drinking with Bobby Layne! I’m kdding…I think I was too expensive. My signing bonus then was $6,000 – that was a lot then. Though I did find out later Clendon Thomas signed for $12,000 – so I guess I sold myself cheap!

What do you think of the way the game has changed today?

I talk a lot with former players in the NFL Players Association. As a Chaplain for the NFLPA Dallas Chapter,  I don’t like to see some of these things the players are doing are that are not in line with being a good example for our youth. It gives a poor image for 90% of the players in the NFL not doing those things. We wouldn’t have tolerated that stuff when I played. The drugs….we had uppers and downers then only – not like the drugs they have today – and not with the money they get today. They should be setting an example for our youth. There’s just no discipline with most of these players today.

How much did your faith help you in that regard in your playing days?

I came into the NFL committed to the Christian faith. I guess I was a goody goody guy, I didn’t drink or smoke. But I was big enough that no one would mess with me when I said no. Race was a big deal then too – though I was color blind to it all. So I just said no to those things and moved on.

I actually started the chapel service in Pittsburgh for Protestants. Rooney came up to me when I did and said “You can do that, but you have to start one for the Catholics too!” So I held two chapel services for home and away games. I helped start the FCA chapter in Oklahoma – I was always very involved in my faith. I had the privilege of starting it with the Steelers. It was exciting to see the respect the players had for the chapel.

Any last thoughts for readers?

I have such a high regard for the Pittsburgh fans. I have never seen better fans in my life. I still get a card every month from some fan who wants an autograph and just wants to say thank you – all for one dumb year I played in 1958.

Steelers Takeaways fundraising drive!

Help keep these free interviews coming! If you can, please donate as little (or as much!) as you like by contributing to Steelers Takeaways here:

https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/pittsburghsports

Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades.  To order, just click on the book: