First, can you let me know what you’ve ben doing since your time in the NFL?
Well, I’ve been a school teacher and high school football coach for 34 years and an administrator – the city coordinator for high school football before I retired.
You’ve been a legendary high school coach in the Chicago area – what made you such a good coach?
Number one – I had a good feeling for getting kids to want to play for you. I had two great college coaches in Joe Gilliam Sr. and John Merritt at Tennessee State. They were both hard workers who showed me how to get guys to want to play for you. I also was a quarterback in high school and college and that helped me to learn the game. I knew the game as a player and that carried over into coaching.
Was the adjustment to coaching from playing difficult?
It wasn’t a hard adjustment – it was something I always wanted to do after being around Joe Gilliam Sr. especially. The way he showed me how to be a leader – that was very important. You got to have people who want to play for you. I asked my kids once why they won so many games. They said it was because they loved playing for me. That I kept it fun – I kept them laughing. That helped them want to play for me.
Were you surprised to have been drafted by the Steelers in ’63?
Not really. I was drafted in the fourth round – I was very fortunate. I had a chance to play in the CFL too but I chose the NFL because it was closer to home. It was more exposure then for those people that wanted to see me play.
How frustrating was it as a successful college quarterback not getting the chance to play quarterback in the NFL?
The NFL wasn’t ready for an African American quarterback. It was never discussed. I’ll never forget when Buddy Parker interviewed the rookies at Liberty University. He called me in and told me he was going to use me as a running back with an option to pass like Paul Hornung was used. I had no say-so. They had Bill Nelsen there and Ed Brown as well, who was an outstanding quarterback.
You ended up being moved to wide receiver. How were you able to make that adjustment?
I had good speed – that helped me adapt to it. And I caught on quickly because I played quarterback in college and high school. So I could learn the system – but it was still a big adjustment. The game was much rougher then. You went across the middle then and you could get your head knocked off. The contact was different then and that made it rough. As a quarterback I was always protected – now I was getting the stuffing knocked out of me all the time. I could get downfield fast though – it was just hard to get on the field when we had guys like Buddy Dial and Carpenter on the team.
Did any of those guys help you out as a rookie – on and off the field?
Brady Keys and John Henry Johnson both did – we only had about four or five African Americans on the team then, We all hung out together except John Baker – he was more subdued and laid back. He didn’t go out like we did.
Making the adjustment from Mississippi to a city like Pittsburgh – they helped keep me away from the bad things and places. Brady especially as a defensive back – he could see if I ran the wrong route and would correct me. He could tell what I was doing by the way I lined up so he’d help me out with those types of things.
What stands out most about your time there in Pittsburgh?
The great thing was seeing how the game was played. I thought everyone would look like the college guys. But I saw a lot of older guys. Stautner, John Henry – they were in their mid-30’s. I looked at them and said, “Man, here I am – 21, 22 years old, with these older men in the NFL.” But they were hard-nosed, tough guys.. We had a good team that year.
Coach Parker was a real tough guy too if you couldn’t do your job.
A lot happened that year. I remember going to play the Browns. We were 112 miles apart I think – we’d take a bus there. They had like 80,000 people in Municipal Stadium when we played. When we played at Forbes Field we’d have maybe 20,000 – at Pitt Stadium maybe 40,000.
Well, they touted that game as Ohio State’s Bob Ferguson against Cleveland’s Jim Brown. When Cleveland came on the field they turned off all the lights and a big spotlight would turn on and focus on Jim Brown who came out of the dugout.
Myron Pottios and Clendon Thomas – they said they were going to knock the hell out of Brown that game. Well, by the end of the game Brown rushed for 190 yards! Pottios tore off his shirt and there were cleat marks on his chest from Brown running over him! That was one of the funniest things I ever saw – it was a great night.
You were there for one season – what happened after that?
I scored a touchdown versus the Bears – that was the week Kennedy was killed. We played the Eagles the next week and I got on the field quicker than I expected. Parker pulled me aside and said they had a special set of plays for me. It was a cold day and I wasn’t warmed up enough and first strained a hamstring, then pulled a muscle and I heard the snap. It just kept hurting all season.
The next season I messed my leg up again. I’ll never forget Coach Parker calling me into his office after the last exhibition game. It seemed like he was waiting for me to ask for one more chance but I didn’t say anything. He then told me he was releasing me.
I went to Chicago and met with George Halas. I messed up my leg again, but he told me he had seen enough already and wanted to put me on the taxi squad. I told him I thought I was better than that, and they ended up letting me go. After that, that’s when I went into coaching.
What do you think of the NFL today? Watch it?
It’s s different these days. Back then they would intimidate you on the field. The game is softer now compared to those days. When I came to the Bears, Sayers and Butkus just got there. Butkus was one of the greatest linebackers I had ever seen – he was a physical specimen who would intimidate you. The game has changed now from those guys.
Any last thoughts to share?
I just want to thank the Rooneys fro bringing me in. The old man was such a great man.
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