First, let me know what you’ve been doing sine your time in the NFL?
I’ve been working in the school system as an educator – the dean of discipline inn school. I was interested originally in law enforcement, but I got involved in substitute after football, and my friend told me if I wanted to get more involved I should take classes – so I did and got certified as a teacher.
The FBI was my first love, but I got involved in teaching. I never thought about teaching at first, but I started to like it after I got involved, and the rest is history!
Was the post-NFL adjustment difficult for you?
In the beginning when I retired it was hard for a time, but I was young. It was important that I found something that I could do as a career that I enjoyed – for 40 years or so. I knew football couldn’t last – I played for six years. When I got married and had a family I knew I was ready for the next thing. And I can’t complain now.
Were you surprised to get signed by Pittsburgh as an undrafted free agent?
I guess. It’s funny, because I never worked out for them. I worked out for six or seven teams, but for some reason, never Pittsburgh,
I came in as a free agent – I wasn’t drafted. Bill Nunn was the guy that wanted me – he discovered a lot of guys. He was the guy that recommended that Pittsburgh sign me – that’s what was told to me later.
I didn’t know much about Pittsburgh. I went to Detroit, Atlanta – I didn’t go to Pittsburgh because I thought Detroit was where I wanted to go. Me and Zeke Mowatt – we went to a few teams together and he ended up signing with the Giants and winning a Super Bowl there. But Jim “Buff” Boston met me at the Tallahassee Airport and negotiated a bigger contract than what other teams offered. And that was that.
Did anyone take you under their wing as a rookie in Pittsburgh?
The defensive backs usually hung out with the defensive backs. After my second or third week, Mel Blount came up to me and told me I was going to make the team. That I should watch him and do what he did. He was my role model – he and Donnie Shell. Donnie wore number 31 and I wore 33, so we were next to each other in the locker room and talked all the time. We’d all see each other in meeting rooms and I’d learn from him there. I became close with Woodruff then too.
What did they help you out with most?
Technique. When I left Pittsburgh, Tony Dungy wrote a book and in it he talked about how I was technically sound. That’s why I went to the Giants after Pittsburgh – Belichick and Parcells liked that about me.
You also became close with Art Sr. correct?
Yeah – I played baseball when I was younger – I was actually a better baseball than football player then. I was an avid baseball fan – I knew all the players and read all about the sport. I even played semi-pro ball while I was in college.
Well, Art found out that I liked baseball and invited me to go see some of the Pirates gamed with him. He’d send a car to pick me up and take me to the games. The players started calling me “Little Chief” after that – I think Mel started that. He was close to Art then too.
Any memories of those times stand out most to you?
I think just the city as a whole. They adopted you as one of their own family members. At that time baseball was big – the Pirates had recently won a championship. “We Are Family” was a big song then. If you played a sport in Pittsburgh they considered you like family. There was a sense of togetherness and it was just a fun city. The fans would recognize you and they all loved football. So it was just fun – going downtown and people recognizing you like that.
I also like to tell this story. My rookie year they called me “Babyface” because I looked so young – I never even had to shave. Well, when you get to the facility you have to drive through a gate with security. Well one day the guy there was new and didn’t recognize me – he thought I was joking – some 5′ 10″, 170 pound guy trying to get in to see the players or something. He didn’t believe me so they had to call Ralph Berlin to let me in. I think Howard Cosell ended up telling that story on Monday Night Football.
Being a smaller player, what enabled you to be so successful?
I got my start when they traded away Washington which opened the door for me. I think it was all about technique. For me, it was all about leverage and striking a person when I tackled them. And knowing where to go – to be in the right place at the right time.
You have to be smart when playing the safety position. You have to be a student of the game and know what the plays are before they happen. I took film home with me to watch it. To know what was going on. Teams are predictable – they still are today. They do what they like to do, no matter what the defense does. So I made sure I studied film. I had to be one step ahead due to my size, So that was my biggest asset maybe – being a student of the game.
Do you watch the NFL today? What do you think of the game today?
It’s watered down now. It’s mainly for the offense. I don’t know if I could play in today’s game. It’s all about the offense – they have the big advantage. It’s tough now for defensive backs- that’s why you rarely have shutdown corners any more. They let the offense do to much and don’t let the defense do enough. It’s too difficult now for defensive backs.
You have a son now in college playing football too? What advice if any do you give him?
My son transferred from Illinois and is a senior at Duquesne now yes. I hope they have a football season this year.
I just preach to him to be a student of the game – to be prepared and enjoy the game as well If you do those things it’ll take you a long way.
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