First, let me know what you’e been doing with yourself since your time in the NFL?
Well, I’m a little bit different than some of the other folks. I knew I wanted to be a prison warden since high school. 99% of the prison wardens will tell you they just sort of fell into it – got a job with the agency and then whoa, they are there.
When I was in high school, I was fascinated with prison movies. We took a trip to a local prison and met the warden. I was fascinated with the power they had and what goes on in the prison. And there’s a big element of making a difference every day.
So, even in high school, I wanted to be a prison warden.
How did you get the job?
One night in night class we had a woman who worked in a prison sub for the professor and she asked us what we wanted to do. When I told her I wanted to be a warden she laughed. But she asked me if I wanted to meet the prison warden and she introduced me to him – Fred LeFleur The name was familiar and it turns out his uncle was a teacher of mine that was killed in the Miami riots. We bonded after that meeting. I’d go volunteer at the various prison events while I went to school.
When I was drafted they told me when the football stuff was done to come back. That was 28 years ago, and here I am!
Was the post-NFL adjustment difficult for you?
I’m glad you asked that – it’s a super important question for existing and young athletes. I’ve seen some of my friends really really struggle. When I was drafted the coaches called me in and told me they wanted to put me on the practice squad that first year – it was the first year the practice squad existed. They said they’d release me, but they weren’t really releasing me. They said I could stay in Pittsburgh or go home and they’d call me back. I decided to go home – I didn’t trust fully they’d call me back, but they did.
I had already watched guys though when I was in college struggle through that adjustment. Back then once you got past a certain point, a lot of the football players stopped going to class. They were just a half-year away from graduating but stopped instead of getting their degree. But once they come back as ex-players, they aren’t athletes any more, Now they are just ex-players and many didn’t have second careers. It was sad and I watched that happen a lot. I paid attention to that.
I remember when we played Iowa and won big my last game of my college career. When I came out of the game I remember it hit me – holy moly – it’s all over. It was a big blow. I knew I’d at least go the NFL as a free agent, but still..
When I was in the airport before I got called back to Pittsburgh, I remember a guy saw me and told me I was big enough to be a football player. For the first time in a long time I didn’t say I was one. It was a sad moment for me. But I was already preparing myself just in case they didn’t call me back.
So I guess because of all of that, I never really felt lost after football. When I was done, I knew what I wanted to do and didn’t have a hard time finding a job.
Were you surprised to find out Pittsburgh drafted you? How did you find out?
The interesting thing is that I heard so many stories of coaches lying to players before the draft. The Raiders told me they were going to take me in the fourth round. I wasn’t invited to the combine but I played in the Christmas day Blue and White game and they did the measurements there – and I had a good game. And a lot of scouts came to my pro day too. I knew I’d probably get drafted.
I remember though sitting at my house and not getting drafted on the first day. I said screw this and went to classes the next day. When I got back I had 10 voice mail messages. Nine were from teams wanting to talk to me about signing me as a free agent after the draft. The last one was from Pittsburgh telling me they drafted me and that they wanted to fly me in the next day.
Anyone help mentor you when you got there?
They brought all of the picks in together and we all watched out for each other really. The coaches also showed us around and we all stayed at the same hotel together. It was an easy transition because of that.
What was the biggest adjustment for you at the NFL level?
The speed. My God. It wasn’t the strength so much – it was how fast you had to read and react to things. I was fast, but you had to be so fast reading things.
Everyone was so crisp in their route-running. We played versus the Redskins during the preseason and I remember I had blanket coverage on a tight end, but the quarterback threw it in there anyway and the tight end still caught it. Holy moly, in college they don’t even throw that pass. I learned that it’s not enough to just be there, you have to knock it down and be aware.
Any fun moments you remember of your time there?
The best times are of the locker room. That was the best part of playing football, by far. When I was in Atlanta we had characters like Deion, Tuggle, Favre, Rison…they were something else. In Pittsburgh we also had characters like Worley, Eric Green, Nickerson, Hinkle… They were interesting personalities.
The guys in Pittsburgh used to razz me because I was so cheap and drove a Corsica. I finally had to buy a Chevy Blazer to get them off my back!
We also used to have position parties and the rookies had to pay for it all. I told the guys I had no money – I wouldn’t pay for it. They would hide my helmet and mess with me during practice, tying to get me to pay for it . The coaches finally started yelling at the vets to leave me alone – it was becoming a distraction!
Well, finally, David Little came up to me. We both were from Miami and he looked out for me, God bless him. He gave me money to pay for it all, but I had to pretend like it was my money. I took care of the restaurants, limos, made sure everyone got home safely…as you can imagine, there were a lot of libations!
After that first season you left for Atlanta – what happened and how difficult was that move for you?
I was a tenth round pick and didn’t make much money. And Pittsburgh had a very complicated system to learn. I was still learning the system as a rookie. They liked my athletic ability but weren’t going to pay me a lot of money. Atlanta gave me a lot more money and their system was much less complicated. I would have liked to stay, but they gave me $10,000 in a signing bonus and $25,000 more in salary – so it was an easy decision.
Any advice for young players trying to make it today?
Any advice is really different for different people. For first and second round type guys, just stay grounded. I remember sitting in the locker room pinching myself, that it wasn’t real. I once asked Rod Woodson how much he made, and he told me. Then he talked to me for 15 minutes and told me he put 90% of his money away. That it was important to take care of your money and save it over the six months you play because it has to last the full year. I’ve seen guys go broke those six months of no-playing time just trying to make it to the season.
For the other guys, I’ve seen too many go buy Mercedes and spend their money too quickly. I stretched my little bit of money and saved, and attribute that to that conversation with Rod Woodson. Seeing guys fly in women, buying fancy cars – I’m not knocking it, but that’s not the best way to do it. That’s too much money blown.
And lastly, for all of the guys, just make sure you enjoy it. It’s going to end sooner than later for most. And even if it lasts for 12 years, you’re still young when it ends. It may be boring stuff, but that’s my advice.
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