First, I was sorry to hear about your being let go by the Raiders after being their Director of Player Personnel. Was that a surprise?

After they let go Reggie Mackenzie you had to assume it would be the case. I wasn’t caught off guard, that’s correct.

What are the next steps for you ?

Hopefully I can stay in the business. I’ll start reaching out to contacts – there are a lot of things going on. Hopefully I’ll still be associated with it. I’ve been doing this now for 26 years. It’ been a long time and I’m excited for the next chapter.

Any interest in the seemingly hundreds of new leagues now forming?

Ha! It’s not a knock on the AAF or XFL, but the NFL is the creme’ de la creme’. I started my career there and hopefully will stay in the NFL.

How did your scouting career being in Pittsburgh – and what did you learn working for the Steelers part-time?

It was kind of the basics really. The foundations of how to be a scout. I learned how to construct a scouting report – the wording to use.  What the things are that’s important to put in a report. It wasn’t so much unique or different from other places – just how I got started. I didn’t get to be in many of the meetings mind you, being part-time. And I think they do things differently today.

Speaking of scouting – do you remember being scouted and the interest the Steelers had in you before they drafted you?

I felt like they were. I had seen scouts and Dick Haley on campus at Tennessee. I felt good – that a number of teams were interested. I obviously didn’t know where I would end up but I didn’t think I’d last to the ninth round.

But once you get there it becomes about making the team. I think it was that way no matter where you were drafted.

Did anyone help you most to adjust to life on and off the field as a rookie?

I’d say the most help was in the receivers room. There were a lot of young guys then – Charles Lockett was drafted earlier in the same draft. John Stallworth – I learned more about being a wide receiver from watching him in practice and listening to him than I had up to that point. He was such a professional. There are a lot of things you learn by watching and not saying a whole lot. John was a special player.

Anything specific you picked up?

Coming in, the biggest thing was learning that you were competing all of the time. It was always a competition – even more so for a lower draft pick.  I remember as a rookie the first drill when we arrived as rookies was the live kickoff drill. You had 120 guys then so you could get away with that stuff more. I don’t think they would do that today. You sure found out who the tough guys were right away! It was different then. It was a lot of fun but you were always competing. It was the Steelers way!

Any fun memories of your time playing there?

It was a good draft class when I came in. Woodson was the first draft pick then and we got along. Delton Hall – he was always a piece of work. I guess you can say he was edgy. You know there are guys who come into your path and right away you know you’ll be friends. he was one of those guys. The last time I saw him was at Rod’s Hall of Fame ceremony and we picked up right where we left off. Later he was complaining about his son and how out of control he was. I told him it sounded just like him! He laughed at that,

I also remember a game in 1987. I was on the bench and it was cold as shit in Cleveland. The wind was blowing off of the three rivers – it was well below zero. Noll didn’t believe in heated seats and blowers. I looked across the field and saw the Cleveland players sitting on heated seats with blower when I heard my number called to go in. They had me run a go pattern. I just remember running downfield 100 miles per hour, no warmup or anything, and all I could think about was seeing the guys on the other side of the field with the blowers and heated seats. I think the pass was overthrown…

You were there for two years before being let go  – how hard was that for you?

It was hard to leave the team. I got injured and you really can’t help things like that. I never had hamstring or other injury issues in college but had them in Pittsburgh. It forced the issue. I went to Tampa Bay after that then  bounced around a bit before deciding it was time to find a different way to stay in the game. I enjoyed my time in Pittsburgh, It was a special place.

Did that experience affect the way you approached being a scout?

Absolutely. It makes you appreciate things you don’t realize as a player. As a player I learned all of the receiver positions – just in case someone got injured. Today’s players know their positions, but if asked to move to the Z or H, they wouldn’t be familiar with that. You appreciate now guys that aren’t limited – that know all the positions.

All people and systems are different. But if you’re bright and study the game, you figure out how to play more than one position. I didn’t realize that as a player, but I appreciate it now on the other side of it, that a player who knows more than one position saves you a roster spot. So you look for players with those attributes.

Having scouted for so long, can you describe how college players have changed since you first started as a scout?

The expectations have changed. You see college guys sitting out of bowl games now because they are afraid of getting hurt before the combine. That never happened five years ago, much less 25 years ago.

Today’s athlete is probably better. They are bigger, faster, stronger. The collisions are more impactful because they are bigger and stronger. Now there are offensive linemen who run as fast as tight ends. So, the game has changed because of that too. But you still come across guys that have that gritty mentality you look for. Just like in the 80’s and 90’s, the guys that aren’t the best athletes but are bright and tough – they make the team.

Any last thoughts on the game itself?

Football is still a great sport. I know it’s been under fire the past couple of years for concussion issues, and rightfully so. Well get that sorted out. Guys that love and have passion for the game of football still exist. Real football players that would play for free if they could. I know if everyone was paid the same we’d all sign up again and play of we could. We all made a good living from sports – but it’s still easy to tell the guys that really love the game.

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