First, can you tell me a bit about the impact North Texas had on you as a player – what made you such a good player there?
Well, you know Joe doesn’t like to talk about Joe!
Well, let’s start with North Texas then and what they did to help you?
North Texas didn’t let freshmen play at the varsity level when I was there as a freshman. I had a really good freshman coach – Ken Bahnsen. He put us through exercises and drills – a myriad of them that personally helped me to understand balance, quickness, and leverage. And explosiveness. Things like the 50-yard duck walk, where you put your hands between your knees and walk like ducks. The two-man sled we did as 100-yard relays – 50 yards at a time. All the sled drills, and practicing running to the ball.
It was a little bit of a departure from my time in high school. I attributed that to me staying healthy throughout my career. I had good leverage and balance and good vision. I could see trouble and decide whether to get out of the way. I didn’t have a macho attitude that I couldn’t get hurt. All of that happened during my time at North Texas – that mindset. I was always in a good position to take on contact.
Even early on you were seen as a leader on the Steelers. How did that happen so early on in your professional career?
Well being a leader – that’s not something you plan on. You just do the way you do – go through your business. I was just trying to accomplish my task. Trying to win. To succeed individually and to win, collectively, the game. When you can do that and do it the right way, you gain respect and fellowship by the way you work on your craft. That’s how you become a leader. Then they emulate the way you do things.
It really starts with the coaches. They point you in the right direction and provide that trustworthiness. That’s so big and important. When you’re playing sports, regardless at what level, leadership starts with the coaches. How well you accept and believe in what they tell you and how you buy into it.
So that buy in had players believing in you?
I really don’t know – I’m speculating. But before I got there, in ’67 and ’68 the Steelers just won two games. When I got there in ’69 we won just one game. I was out of control at the time when I played. I think my inability to control my temper showed my teammates that I wasn’t willing to accept losing. Maybe that was a big thing. I responded badly by getting into fights and getting thrown out of games. But that was all in pursuit of winning even though it wasn’t the right way.
Did anyone take you under their wing when you got there and help you adjust to the NFL?
My roommate on game night – home and away – at the time was John Brown. He was a 12-year vet. He helped me when I did ill-advised things. He’d tell me that I can’t do that. That those things don’t help the team and my reputation. He was right. I didn’t get it right away but I eventually did get it. He shared with me how to act.
A lot of players including Mel Blount spoke about your impact on them. How did you go about being a mentor to younger players – even when you were a young player?
I don’t think I ever went about purposely trying to mentor anyone. Not in those days. My process and thoughts were about winning – I just knew I had to have a better attitude about what we were trying to do. When I started to believe in what Noll was doing I would repeat the things he said to the young guys. When you buy into leadership you repeat some of the those things.
I said a lot of things over the course of ball games that got a lot of attention from the local press. I talked about the games the best I could – on what I participated in and what I just saw. I talked a lot about the offensive linemen – they didn’t get a lot of attention. Anybody that I enjoyed watching and did a wonderful job I talked about. I never said anything negative about anyone except myself. I talked in positive terms, trying to pass on the wisdom that Chuck passed on to us. That went a long way.
Andy Russell shared information too – he was the captain and a big leader then. Sometimes we wouldn’t understand what Chuck would say in meetings, but Andy would translate it for us!
That first year I played, we had new faces every Monday coming through the locker room for tryouts. Every weekend we’d have new players. We could exchange them out pretty easily then. There weren’t a whole lot of keepers until those later drafts.
When did you realize it was turning around and you were getting ready to really compete?
Well, you don’t know you’re about to get run over by a truck until you get run over. That’s what happened with us. We won our first game in ’69 against Detroit then lost the next 13. But the message from Chuck never changed. I was questioning what we were doing. He’d always say every week we needed to focus on certain things. There were certain things we had to do. For instance, eliminate turnovers. Limit first down yardage. Ensure third downs were for three yards or less on offense. Don’t let up more than 17 points on defense or you’d lose. Another one was not to allow the other team more than seven times with the ball or you’d probably lose.
As time went on we could see that when we matched those numbers we’d win. But we had no evidence those things worked until our third year when we won a few games. It was hard for me to buy-in at first. You’re working on limited information in terms of winning ball games and judging yourself on those benchmarks.
I think somewhere around ’71 – in my third year – we started to play better. The wins started to come. Bradshaw and Blount were brought in, then Franco in ’72. The drafts brought in a lot of guys – Dwight White, Ernie Holmes, Glenn Edwards, Mike Wagner…. we started playing better with those younger guys. We still made mistakes that cost us games. But we played better on defense. I think that’s when we started being called the Steel Curtain. Franco and his enthusiasm and ability to run and Shanklin were a big part of those wins too.
One thing that seems to get overshadowed on those teams was how innovative Chuck Noll was then. Did that have a big impact on the team from your perspective?
I’d say yes. From the way the defensive backs played bump and run, the way the defensive line attacked blockers and used leverage – same foot same shoulder. The offensive line’s technique of punching not holding, and taping down the jerseys so defensive linemen couldn’t grab them. The linemen were smaller than most too, but they could run. They did a lot of trapping. That wasn’t something teams were doing. Most teams had linemen trying to push over 250 pound men off the line of scrimmage. We played the lateral and vertical game and trapped every position on the line. The guards could run and the centers were small. Sam Davis was 250 pounds but could run a 4.8. Moon Mullins was 240 and could run a 4.7. That’s pretty good.
All of that and Chuck preached fundamentals and technique – leverage, leverage, leverage, leverage! He did a great job of coaching technique – and taking care of your body. He brought Paul Uram and Lou Riecke in to work with us. I played 13 years. Mel played 14 years. LC and Job Kolb 13 years. We all had longevity. Paul and Lou believed in squats and big muscles. They didn’t like bench presses. Everything was about leverage, explosiveness, and quickness to the ball.
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