First, can you let me know what you’ve been doing since your time in the NFL – what you’ve been up to in the past couple of years!

Well, my family has just started a grocery business – my wife and I. We just became owners of a wholesale business and are attempting to run it. We’re just staying above water and are working in anticipation of success!

How hard was that adjustment to post-NFL life and what prompted it after just three years in the NFL?

Well remember I played organized sports since high school, college, and then pro football. You become a sort of regimented robot. You expect things to happen and when as the band starts playing, as they say, you just start dancing around. But the transition wasn’t very difficult and frankly I knew it was necessary to do it right to be successful.

My third year I broke my Achilles tendon though. After that I couldn’t even outrun tackles on sweeps so I had to hang it up anyway.

Tell me about being drafted by Pittsburgh. Were you surprised – how did you find out?

As I remember it I was out hunting with a buddy of mine and my father-in-law’s brother heard on the radio that I was drafted. I expected to be drafted but didn’t have a lot expectations as to when. This was before the AFL – there was only one league. I was hoping to be a coach and teach actually. That’s what I was hoping to do after I graduated.

Did anyone help mentor you as a professional football player?

No, there was nothing like that then. I always looked to the older players though like Stautner, who was a well-known starter then. One time I remember we were at the old Forbes Field and I was getting dressed beside him before a game. He put on his helmet before we start walking out – before we left the locker room and I asked him why. He said “You’ll see.” When we walked out of the tunnel I saw why – fans were throwing stuff at all the ball players as we were walking out!

I was one of the last group of players who played both ways in college. Offense, defense, special teams… so coming to the NFL and playing one position was an adjustment too.

How hard was that adjustment to the NFL for you?

Well, I played the game at 215 to 218 pounds. Like I said, we were some of the last guys who played both ways in college. I had to be big enough to take on offensive linemen on defense and still be able to have the speed to run the ball on offense and take on defensive linemen and linebackers.

I was really just glad to be a part of the team. Coach Keisling was gone after my first year and Frank Parker came in. He brought in Bobby Layne and Tom Tracey from Detroit-   two very good players. But at that stage of my life I was getting burnt out from football. I played both ways in college, the Blue-Grey Game and All-Star Game… then camp right away after that. Especially that first year, I started looking at it less as a sport and more as a job. I hate to be that frank about it but I just wanted to stay on the team and get paid.

Any fun or impactful memories of your time there?

One comes vividly to mind. We were playing Cleveland and Ernie Stautner was sitting next to me on the bench and he had a shoulder problem. They gave him an injection – some numbing stuff – and I saw his eyes go to the back of his head. I thought, “Oh my, we have trouble here.” They gave him the wrong injection. I was just thinking, “This is professional football?” Fortunately they had an antidote to fix him up and he went out and played. He was every bit the war horse they said he was.

Jimmy Orr’s wife Eleanor and my wife used to socialize off the field – play cards and were friends. On the field, I loved to see Jimmy Orr run down the field with that free motion he had. He was a wonderful wide receiver.

How do you compare the game today versus how it used to be played?

The game was very different then from the way it’s played now. Wide receivers were just becoming prominent. I remember then we had a power sweep – one play where we pulled two guards, the center, and the fullback. That was a lot of people to run interference for Bobby Layne! That was a good play.

Parker was exceptionally minded as a football coach. He studied film a lot – one time I remember we were all watching film and, I forget the team, but the quarterback ran a quarterback sneak. We weren’t sure if it was an accident or designed play, but Parker said “Look at that! Next week you’ll see every team doing that!” Sure enough, he was right!

Any last thoughts on your time in Pittsburgh?

I never became the prominent star I had hoped to be. But I as very fortunate to play in the NFL. I just wish I had taken more advantage of the time that I was there and enjoyed it more. It just became a job to me.

I’m turning 83 soon. I had a get-together with my daughter and her family and it was uplifting to be acknowledged by family and friends and the community. I had friends call me last week that I didn’t hear from in years congratulating me on making the West Virginia University Hall of Fame. Those are unexpected pleasures. Players don’t think about those kinds of things when they are playing.

Now, I’m still a big fan of the Steelers and watch them. I’m a big fan of Ben Roethlisberger. Boy do I wish I could have played with him!

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