First, can you let readers know what you’ve been doing with yourself since your retirement from the NFL?

I own my own construction business – I do additions and renovations – kitchens and baths, that sort of thing. I’ve been building stuff since I was in seventh grade – I always got into it. It progressed over the years. I guess I like taking a pile of sticks and making something out of it!

How hard was it for you, adjusting to life after the NFL? Did the NFL help in your post-career?

It was a big adjustment. You go from having everything done for you to having to do it yourself.  I bought a house in my hometown outside of Pittsburgh though so it was easier being in my hometown.

The NFL offered zero help then. It’s basically, “We don’t want you anymore so goodbye!”

You stayed in the state your entire football career -high school, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia…. Why did you start off at Penn State?

My dad went to Penn State on the early 50’s – he was captain of the team his senior year and was the first recruit of Joe Paterno’s. As a kid, I’d go to the Pitt-Penn State games when they played at Pitt, and I always watched them on tv. We were a Penn State family.

Looking at the program – especially with your son there – what are the differences you see between the team then and now? Do you have any other affiliation with the team?

Well my son does play for the team – but that’s about the affiliation I have. It was tough with my son playing high school football on Fridays to go see Penn State play the next day. I go to the Blue-White games and see my buddies then…

Did you nudge your son to play at Penn State?

It was all his decision. I had nothing to do with it…He just had more exposure to Penn State than I did – they’re on tv a lot and with the internet…

And the differences between then and now?

I think the biggest difference is in the overall stability of the program. Joe was a mainstay there.  Now there’s a lot of trial and error with the coaching staff. My son was recruited by O’Brien and now Franklin is in. Things are different just between those two coaches. The nuts and bolts are the same but how they run things is different – each has his own personality.

I have to say, the fans were solid – through all the sanctions. That helped continue the tradition. I think 90-95% of college teams wouldn’t have survived the sanctions, but Penn State did. I think that surprised a slot of people. I think that was their way of trying to give the death penalty to the program without officially doing it.

So – getting to your career – you were a fifth round pick of the Steelers in 1983. Were you surprised and happy to stay in the state?

If you asked me then Pittsburgh was by far my first choice. When I got there I was in the locker room with guys I grew up watching – Bradshaw, Harris, Stallworth, Lambert… It was surreal being on the same team and getting to know them. They were amazing people. Here I was this scrawny hometown kid with the greatest players in the game. It was the highlight of my career..

How did the players and coaches help you adjust to the team and life in the NFL?

I knew how the Rooneys and Chuck Noll were. It was very easy – I knew the area and how they were and how the fans treated you. Pittsburgh treats the Steelers very well. You weren’t under the microscope like today with every phone having cameras. You had a lot more freedom. The players would reach out to all the rookies – and if you acted out of line they’d get you back in.

Who helped you the most, and how?

Stallworth helped me a lot. I was good friends with Cliff Stoudt and Mark Malone. They lived close by. When they would go out they would come get me and they would also give me rides to camp, so I had no need for a car. Doing stuff with me, just going out for dinner, watching them on the practice field and in the meeting room – that aspect made a big difference. It wasn’t much different than Penn State, it was very similar. They spent more hours, but it was basically the same thing.

How did you actually find out that you were drafted?

I was at an ESPN thing in New Jersey when they called my house and spoke to my dad, so he knew first. Art Rooney Jr. called so my dad gave him the number for me in NJ. We didn’t have cell phones then so he called me there and he told me that they just drafted me and they were glad to have me on the team.

What were some of the funniest moments that you remember during your time there?

My biggest memory was as a rookie having my locker next to Jack Lambert. He was a mean guy, on and off the field. Some players are mean on the field but nice off of it, but Jack Lambert was mean on and off the field. So as a rookie, I remember sitting on my stool in the locker room during my first training camp and Jack Lambert said to me: “Hey Rook, you’re from Penn State, right?” I said yes. He said, “Well, you need to clean out my ashtray twice a day. The last Penn State guy to do that was terrible.” Well, that guy was Jack Ham. And Lambert smoked a lot of cigarettes, even at halftime. Even the coaches smoked at halftime.

It was a family type of locker room, you didn’t feel it was a big business even though it was. You could be yourself and all was good. I remember my first wide receivers’ meeting. We were all the meeting room with wide receiver coach Tom Moore. The lights were out, we were all watching film and going over the playbook. All of a sudden the door flies open and slams into the wall and the lights go on. I look over and in comes Mel Blount. He walked around and announced that he just wanted to see the fresh meat. He walked around and looked at each of us one at a time and then walked out. He wasn’t one of the nicest guys. All the players were very cool, but a couple of them you just didn’t speak to until they spoke to you first.

I also remember my first game. It was the Hall of Fame game, where I scored a touchdown. It was a preseason game but I scored early in the game. And I remember catching a touchdown pass from Terry Bradshaw in the last game at Shea Stadium. Those stand out the most to me.

You were released in your second year in Pittsburgh. What happened and what were your thoughts on that?

I remember it was a Monday meeting and I was called. A couple of linemen got hurt and they needed to bring more in but there was no room on the roster, so they waived me and tried to sneak me in through waivers. But Philadelphia claimed me first. Kenny Jackson in Philadelphia just got hurt and the coach asked him about me. I played with him at Penn State for three year. And Kenny told them they should go get me.

I didn’t understand why the Steelers did it. I was playing ahead of the other guys when they released me, but I guess they were higher draft picks. I was kind of mad at the time.

How was Philadelphia different from your experience at Pittsburgh?

It was 180 degrees different. Even down to the locker room. In Pittsburgh they had custom-made wood lockers. In Philadelphia it was made out of ugly metal. It was a tough adjustment from Pittsburgh. Fortunately, I knew a lot of guys from Penn State. I didn’t like it at first. Philadelphia is a big city vs Pittsburgh. But I got to know the guys, and I liked it a lot more as I got to know Philadelphia. It was a lot of fun and I met some great people.

What are your thoughts on the changes to the NFL today?

Well, I’m an old school guy. But with things like concussions, the changes are for the betterment of the players, at least it seems to me. With the bad things that happened with former and even current players, it seems like the NFL is trying to do the right thing. I still like to watch, but sometimes it’s like two-handed touch now. I don’t know how they do it. The game is so fast playing it, now you have only two areas where you can hit a quarterback – you can’t hit them low or high. But I understand it’s for the future of the players, and hopefully they’ll have no problems like they used to have. It’s still a great game, and the fans are adjusting well. The players are too. It’s still entertaining, at least for the fans.

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