First, can you let readers know what you’ve been doing since you’ve retired from the NFL and how you got started in this venture?

I started working at an ad agency in 1985 and loved it. Thirty years later—the last 20 at Perich Advertising + Design in Ann Arbor—I’m still loving it.

I’d planned to go to law school and had never considered the ad business until my senior year at Michigan. A former Michigan athlete by the name of Pete Dow (he was president of a big ad agency in the area) came to Ann Arbor that winter and asked the coaches for the names of some athletes with pretty good grades. His thoughts were that someone getting A’s and B’s while also competing in major college athletics would be pretty well equipped to handle the unique demands of an advertising career. So I guess you could say advertising found me.

How hard was it for you to adjust to life post professional football, and how did your time in the NFL help you to do so?

Playing football, any team sport really but especially major college and professional football, teaches you about preparation and teamwork. The players and teams that prepare the best and work together win the most. So football taught me to prepare, and how to contribute to a team. I carried that over into my advertising career and it’s been invaluable.

Otherwise, with as brief a career as I had, it wasn’t too great an adjustment. I was never truly comfortable with my spot on the roster. As the third tight end, I wasn’t exactly indispensable. And in those days, the salaries were nowhere near where they are now. If you do the math and break down the salary of the top-paid players in the NFL to how much they make per play, it would take them 2 or 3 plays to earn what I made over my entire career. So it wasn’t too big a transition for me financially. It was a bigger transition to go from having a very physically demanding profession to one where you sit at a desk most of the time.

You are a Pittsburgh native – went to school at Upper St. Clair High School. So how excited were you when the Steelers drafted you in 1983?

I could not have been more excited. Earlier that day I had taken my last two college final exams. It must’ve been 8pm or so when I got the call. (That year the NFL held all 12 rounds on the same day, instead of 6 one day and 6 the next, to prevent players who weren’t drafted the first day from signing with a USFL team between draft session.) I remember it was Tom Modrak who called to tell me the Steelers were making me their 8th round pick. He asked how I’d like to play for the Steelers and I remember telling him out of all 28 teams, that would be the one I wanted to play for most.

You were also drafted by the USFL’s Michigan Panthers. As a Michigan Alum – how conflicted were you between who to sign with when you had personal ties to both cities?

There was never any question. The NFL was the big time. I was a huge Steelers fan. My dad and I had seen the Immaculate Reception in person. The chance to play for Pittsburgh was a dream come true.

As a rookie, who helped mentor you – both on and off the field – and how did they do so?

I took a little bit from a lot of people. Franco Harris was the consummate pro. So were guys like John Stallworth, Rick Donnalley and Mel Blount. Brian Hinkle was a friend and someone who taught me to be cautious with your finances. Robin Cole was welcoming. I remember when we were in L.A. for the playoffs he invited a bunch of guys over to his childhood home for an authentic soul food dinner. It meant a lot to me to be included.

I also took advice from people like Tony Parisi, the equipment manager, and Ralph Berlin, the trainer. These were guys who’d been there longer than most of the players and had a lot of knowledge to share. Both really great guys.

I remember learning from Ralph what a great man Mr. Rooney (Art, Sr.) was. Not that I couldn’t tell on my own, but seeing the respect people like Ralph had for him told me a lot.

Tony Parisi taught me some things, too. One was that when you’re time is up, it’s time for everyone to move on. That all came about because I was interested in getting the same number I’d worn in high school and college. My junior year at Upper St. Clair High School I chose #88 because I admired Lynn Swann. At Michigan, they gave me that number without me even asking for it. So when I went to the Steelers, Swann had just retired. The number was available. Only problem was, I thought they might be thinking about retiring #88. When I talked to Tony, I remember telling him I’d love to have 88 but would understand if they didn’t want to give it out, especially right away. He seemed to scoff at the idea. Next thing I know, I’m #88.

With Bennie Cunningham still starting at the tight end position, what was your role on the offense at that time?

My role on offense was limited to short yardage and goal line situations. We’d put in two or three tight ends, Johnny Rodgers was the other tight end, and usually run some sort of power play. Most of my playing time came on special teams.

In 1983, a number of key veterans had retired or were about to, including Bradshaw. How did the coaching staff and team handle all of that change then, from your perspective?

There was a good bit of talk about Terry. He had an elbow injury that was slow to heal and he missed almost the entire season, which ended up being his last. This was when Chuck Noll suggested it might be time for Terry to “get on with his life’s work.” As someone who grew up a big Terry Bradshaw fan, I thought that was kind of cold. It was a lesson not too unlike the one I learned from Tony Parisi (about giving out Lynn Swann’s 88 so quickly). That stands out to me.

Mel Blount who may have been one of the best players I ever played with, retired after the season. His retirement was, relatively speaking, routine.

How much did humor play a part on that Steelers team, and how so? Can you give a couple of examples of some funny things that occurred, on or off the field?

We had our laughs. I remember the Halloween party in ’83. Robin Cole came dressed as an old woman. He had a big house dress on and a wig, and he had these huge hands, like dinner plates, sticking out of the sleeves. You’d laugh just watching him stride across the room.

Sometimes the humor was at a teammate’s expense.  We went down to WQED for their telethon and were answering phones, taking donations. Someone from the station came over to talk to some of the guys and I think it was Tunch Ilkin who suggested, on camera, that the biggest donation the next hour would earn a life-sized Cabbage Patch doll. The doll he was referring to was Mike Webster.

One other story that isn’t funny so much as an interesting glimpse of a Steeler legend. During training camp rookie year Gregg Garrity and I were leaving dinner and had some time to kill before our evening meeting. Terry Bradshaw, who was in camp but not practicing, drove by and invited us up to the corner bar, the Intermission, for a beer. In the car with Terry was Roy Blount, Jr., who was writing a story for Sports Illustrated about the changes underway with the 4-time Super Bowl champions. We jump in the car and during our ride to and from the bar I noticed Terry was playing some country music on the tape deck. Not a surprise. Terry was born in Louisiana. Lots of country music fans in the south. But I was curious about just who it was Terry liked listening to. I didn’t recognize the singer. Finally, on the way back I asked him who it was. He said, “It’s me!” Terry was playing one of his own albums.

After that ’83 season, you left the Steelers and NFL. What prompted that decision and how hard was that for you?

What prompted me leaving was the guy who said “you’re being released.” This was in training camp in ’84. It was the second time I’d been cut. (The first time was right before the ’83 season, but I was re-signed when a roster spot opened after game 5.) I was never under any illusion I had a hall of fame career ahead of me. So when I was cut the second time, I figured it was time for me to head back to Michigan. A few weeks later I signed with the Michigan Panthers. Six days after that the Steelers called back. A couple of injuries to tight ends and they wanted me back. Had I not already signed with the Panthers, I might’ve played again. As it turned out, the Panthers merged with another USFL team before their season started. I went to training camp, got the flu and they cut me before I ever got a chance to practice. By then, I was ready to move on to, as Chuck Noll would call it, my life’s work.

What advice would you give to players today entering the sport?

Recognize all that football teaches you about life. Talent and desire can only take you so far. Preparation and hard work will take you farther. But it takes teamwork to get you to the top.

Being part of a team, something bigger than yourself, is one of the most powerful things in the world.

Any last thoughts for readers?
Appreciate how great you have it to be a Steelers fan. That is one heck of an organization. Sustained excellence is incredibly hard. That the Steelers have been exceptional for more than 40 years is truly special.

Steelers Takeaways fundraising drive!

Help keep these free interviews coming! If you can, please donate as little (or as much!) as you like by contributing to Steelers Takeaways here:

https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/pittsburghsports

Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades.  To order, just click on the book: