First – what are you up to now?
I’m retired now. When Covid hit I was a scout for the Rangers at the time. After that, I was getting tired of traveling anyway – it was getting to me. So when Covid came down I decided that after 49 years it was enough.
Now we travel out West and back to the East coast – we move around and keep active. I was the Grand Marshall for the Canonsburg parade here last year – I didn’t realize it was the one of the biggest parades in the country!
As a player, did you have any mentors when you start in the NHL?
In the 70s there weren’t a lot of young guys in the league. In Toronto we had on coach – that was normal. The assistant coaches were really just the veteran players. If I needed work on something a veteran would work with me. Now it’s reversed – there are mostly young guys in the league and more coaches.
When I was drafted by Toronto I played for Tulsa first. Marcel Pronovost was the coach there – he was the brother of Jean Pronovost who played with the Penguins. He helped me to become a pro. In Toronto guys like Dave Keon, Darryl Sittler, Paul Henderson, Bobby Baun – they helped me too.
Were you surprised when they traded you to the Penguins trade – what prompted that?
My contract was up and I really just needed a change. I was young and had a good first season – I had 33 goals. The next year I fell off – I was hurt at the end and it fell on me – but I was young and a bit immature then and wanted to go somewhere else.
That team had a lot of accomplished goal scorers like Pronovost and Larouche … was it hard finding your place there?
It wasn’t hard, no. That first year Pittsburgh had nine 2+ goal scorers. I played with Ron Shock and Vic Hadfield my first season there then with Battleship Kelly and Pierre Larouche the second year. We had over 100 goals on that line!
How big was winning the Lady Bing Trophy – what did that mean to you?
Growing up, Dave Keon was my idol. I was lucky to get to play with him in Toronto. Toronto was my favorite team growing up to so I was doubly lucky. I just liked his style of play – he came to play and that other stuff, while it was part of the game, it was a style other guys played. Some play that tough role and some don’t – I molded myself more after Dave’s style of play.
Do you think that enforcer role really works in the NHL?
I think today it’s harder to have enforcers due to the rules. You need that one tough guy – if something happens that guy that will stick up for you. That’s the toughest job in hockey I think. There’s either a veteran guy you have to go up against or a young guy coming up trying to prove himself. Those guys are important to a team – I think they should get paid more!
Years ago I think it worked more. Still, you see it in today’s game but it’s less helpful. When they took away the redline it gave more room for skaters. Some think they should do even more and make the ice bigger. Guys are bigger and faster now – players are just so different.
Who helped mentor you as a scout – what did you look for in guys?
It’s always about finding the best player. I was a pro scout – I was looking to see how they would fit on the team and looking at their character on and off the ice. Amateur scouts have it harder – there are just so many more guys to look at. Nowadays you can’t hide a guy. There’s no secret Sidney Crosby hiding somewhere in Quebec!
A big thing for me was also hockey IQ. Everyone can skate and handle the puck when you get to the NHL. But what’s you on-ice awareness like. And if they aren’t scoring goals, can they be a checker or a tough guy? What will their role be? I used to like going to the Traverse City tournament to see the Juniors players for the first time. I could start a book on them then and then watch as they developed. Some guys you could see would be better pros than Juniors players.
Who did you model yourself after as a coach?
Eddie Johnston was a mentor to me. We were teammates in Toronto and he then coached me in Pittsburgh. I had my two best seasons playing for him. When I got hurt he hired me as a scout then as an assistant coach.
Ed was a goalie and he saw the game differently that way. He saw the details of the game – he could tell people what they needed to work on – he had a way of explaining the details that I really liked and tried to adopt.
What are some of the moments that stand out to you as a coach and player?
A good story when I was in Toronto was when Bobby “Boomer” Moran there was helping me take some practice shots as a rookie. I was in the corner and asked him to pass me 20 pucks, which he did. I shot from the slot and some went wide, some went over the net and some when in. I said “Thanks Boomer” and was picking up the pucks when he said “No. Get all the pucks and come here. You aren’t leaving until you get all of the pucks in the net.” So I fired all of them at the middle of the net – my forearms were burning! I wasn’t about to risk missing one! That was a lesson to me. Hit the net. Don’t get too fancy – get the puck on net. That’s how you score goals.
Any good stories of your time in Pittsburgh?
Eddie used to have us practice the power play – for a couple of years we had the most power play goals in the league. He would set up hard picks that would eliminate guys – one year Ross Lansbury would be the guy, the next year it was Pat Boutette. Today you couldn’t get away with it – they’d call interference every time. But it was a big thing then – guys in practice knew it was coming and would get clobbered. Some guys got mad and some just laughed it off.
I wanted to talk about the Phantoms as well – the ’94 roller hockey team you coached. What made you decide to take on that role as a coach for a roller hockey team?
The Penguins owned the team – a lot of their staff also worked on the Phantoms. Steve Latin, Paul Flatly … we had some good laughs. It was like the minors. I remember going to play Atlanta and staying in a hotel, looking for the remote. Well, there wasn’t one. It was a TV you had to get up and turn the channel. We were on that kind of budget!
I thought we’d get a second year too – but I guess the league didn’t do well enough.
How did you build a team from scratch?
We had a lot of former NHL players. Warren Young was an assistant coach – Mario Lemieux’s brother Alain played as did Bryan Trottier and other guys. Warren even dressed for some games as well.
As a member of the Pittsburgh Penguins Hall of Fame and Western Pennsylvania Sports Hall of Fame – what’s the part of your legacy you’re most proud of?
My dream was to make it – the rest was icing on the cake. In the end the rest that happened over the years – the two Stanley Cups, Lady Bing and 50+ goal seasons – they were all icing. My big dream was to make it to the NHL – whatever happened after that happened. I experienced more than I ever thought I would – I have no complaints or regrets. I got to play for the team and with players I idolized and made my dream come true.