First off, what have you been up to since your time in the NFL?
I’m working for a title company now. I was the Director of Player Development for the Browns then with regime change after regime change we were out. My father in law got me into this now and I’m doing this here in Ohio.
My oldest daughter is playing volleyball on scholarship at North Carolina and my younger daughter is in Florida. My son – we’re just trying to figure out where he’s going to go to high school!
Did you want them all involved in sports?
I just want whatever is best for them. I joke with my son – I know NFL contracts are guaranteed now but those baseball contracts are big! The problem now is everything is a travel sport. Kids burn out. You play baseball in April, then football and basketball…. We used to look forward to each season as a kid but now with all the specialists and camps kids are burning out. We didn’t have seven-on-sevens like they do now. There’s so much more now.
As the Director of Player Development – what was different from that side of things that you noticed about the game?
Well there aren’t two-a-days anymore – I feel like Doug Dieken on now. He used to complain about how hard it was when he played now I’m doing it! I feel like him! Now players complain about tough practices and those are one a day!
How was the post-NFL adjustment for you?
Retirement was tough. I almost signed with the Steelers in free agency. That’s when Bruce Arians was there. Jerame Tuman is my best friend and he was looking at other teams. Cowher told me he didn’t want me to leave Pittsburgh. I was secretly talking to Jerame and we were comparing offers. I told him he better come back here – I wanted to continue exploring free agency. Cowher laughed – he told me he had a feeling Jerame and I were talking! Jerame finally took the Steelers offer and stayed.
I went and played for San Diego. We were good but lost to some guy named Brady.
I had three shoulder surgeries but I also hurt my back – I cracked my SI joint and usually you do surgery and come back but no one could fix it. I would watch guys and know I was better than them but I couldn’t play!
What happened after that?
Randy Lerner called me and asked me to work with him in Cleveland. At first I started in suite sales and I liked that, then when Tom Heckert and Pat Shurmur came in they had me work in player development. I liked that more – I was closer to the football side of things and I didn’t have to work the late hours coaches did.
What was it like on the business side of things?
I liked it – guys were better off health-wise at that point. But sometimes I think they were babied too much. In staff meetings you could see how it really was when they talked about players. I’m sure they MF’d me as a player! All the coaches and staff would discuss players and you leaned it wasn’t about how good a player was all the time – it was about contracts and draft status.
What do you remember about those one-on-one matchups in those Steelers games?
I have much respect for those guys. I was friendly with Tuman and Foote. Kimo, Aaron Smith, Porter – they had studs on that team.
I remember when we played the Steelers at home and Porter and William Green got into a fight and got kicked out. I talked to Steve Heiden – we thought we got the better of that since Porter was such a good player. In comes this guy…James Harrison. Steve was known to be a good blocker and he asked me to switch sides to block Harrison! We thought there would be a big dropoff but there wasn’t any!
Bruce Arians at the half was MF’ing us – “You can’t block this undrafted guy out of Kent State?” Now we joke about it – that guy was James Harrison!
Troy Polamalu gave me fits too. He’d look like he was blitzing then drop into Cover 2. I was unfortunately the stay-protection guy and had to figure out where the blitz was coming from in LeBeau’s scheme.
Any moments stand out most to you?
One bad moment was the playoff game where we were ahead by 21. Then the Terrible Towels came out and Renegade started playing and we lost all momentum and lost the game.
My first touchdown was against Pittsburgh in my second game in the NFL. That was a great moment for me.
A funny one was with Larry Foote. Steve Heiden caught a pass but the Steelers challenged it. While we were waiting for the call Larry told us he didn’t think Steve caught it. He said “Let’s bet on it!” We bet $5,000 and it was ruled no catch. Foote was trash-talking about that the rest of the game!
When we all worked for Bruce Arians later Larry would joke that we still hadn’t given him the $5,000!
Any other good ones?
We would also play poker with some of the Steelers players on Tuesdays. Tuman would come and bring guys – Kimo would come. It was usually at Ross Verba’s house.We had this big idea for a huge game where we’d all meet halfway in Youngstown but it never happened.
After Steelers – Browns games, if the Steelers won, Cowher would let have the next day off. Well the Steelers players were so confident they told us they had already booked flights to Vegas before the game! We took that personally! They were that confident they would win!
What are your thoughts on the rivalry today?
Its been one-sided too long. Michigan had a streak were they would beat Ohio State, then that switched. Rivalries are best when there aren’t huge gaps and aren’t so lopsided. I want to see it equal out. We’ll see. They are doing the best they can and I think it’ll break soon! It’s a tough division – they are always tough games. I used to joke with Jerame that they would beat the Ravens, we would struggle versus the Ravens, then beat the Steelers. How does that happen? But that’s our division for you.