First off, I know you retired as a teacher at CMU – what are you up to now?
I’m retired now – I’m flying a bunch – volunteering for LightHawk – and environmental organization. I still do some work with CMU – anything that makes me smile!
How did you start as a teacher?
After NASA I became director at CMU’s Natural History Museum – it’s one of the six largest research museums in the country. I was there working on the museum to being back attendees by modernizing the exhibits.
I partnered with the folks at CMU to setup lectures on climate change. I got to know them doing that. When one of them left foo Berkley I was asked if I was interested in teaching at the university. We had successfully raised money for the museum’s Hall of Dinosaurs so I decided to go and teach at CMU. I focused on researching electric power which was useful and rewarding for me.
You’ve also written two books – Orbit: NASA Astronauts Photograph the Earth, published by the National Geographic Society and Variable Renewable Energy and the Electricity Grid – renewable energy is a big focus of what you teach and elite on today correct? What are your thoughts on the direction we’re taking in terms of renewable energy? What do we need to be doing more and less of?
We have a lot of headroom. Less than 30% of energy in this country comes from wind, solar and hydroelectric energy. It’s 70-80% in many parts of the world without grid connectivity issues. So there’s a lot of headroom to grow that. It’s not as windy in Pennsylvania and the skies aren’t as clear in Easter, PA – so there’s less potential there for solar.
After getting your degrees at MIT and Harvard you started working for the Center for Earth & Planetary Physics at Harvard, and served as the Assistant Director of Harvard’s Division of Applied Sciences from 1978 to 1980. What were you studying there specifically and what did you learn then?
How did you get so passionate about science and space – when did it start and why – it seems like you’ve always been drawn to those types of activities – astronaut, scuba diver, model rocketry and amateur radio enthusiast….
I was eight when Sputnik launched. That created great interest for what we now call STEM fields. The U.S. had egg on it’s face and tried to catch up.
I was in Western, PA then and went and took classes at the Buhl Planetarium. I took a streetcar to the Northside to take Saturday classes there.
I also read a lot of science fiction and science fact – that hones your critical thinking skills and helps show you what’s possible if you think in ways not currently being implemented in technology.
Lastly, I also had a terrific middle school science teacher. It shows what a good teacher can do to help people do great things.
In 1980 you joined the Earth and Space Sciences Division of the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) as a scientist doing planetary research. For the layperson what does that entail – what was the planetary research?
Way before that I was interested in space science and travel. In grad school I couldn’t learn about astronautics – no one teaches that. So after I got my PhD I got a position doing planetary science research at Harvard. It was a terrific group there led by Richard Goody. We did a lot of work studying Venus and Jupiter’s moon.
Then I went to wok at CalTech analyzing data from their mission to Venus. Venus was shrouded in clouds – it was a twin of Earth in many ways. But it’s atmosphere was different – it had runaway greenhouse gasses but the amount of CO2 made thr surface hellish.
We wanted to see what we could learn about the clouds – what drove the weather on Venus. We looked at it using infra-rad and found that it had a permanent hurricane at one if it’s poles. Venus doesn’t spin like Earth does – it hardly rotates. So we were learning a lot about our own weather by observing Venus.
We also looked at Jupiter. One of it’s moons – Goliath – was actually discovered by Galileo in the 1600s. But in studying it we learned that it had a lot of sodium in its orbit which was strange. When Voyager flew by it’s other moon -Eos – we saw a great deal of volcanic activity – that explained that. It tied that up in a bow.
Carl Sagan said that we were the one generation that got to see the solar system move from tiny dots to whole new worlds. We had images now of every planet.
Stepping back, as a Pittsburgh/Shadyside Academy graduate, what about the city itself influenced and impacted you?
The Carnegie Library was useful – I read the science fiction in its stacks and the technical library, which is sadly, now gone.
Another thing was, like many adolescents – I was itching to get out! I didn’t live in Pittsburgh for over 30 years until I moved back.
You were soon after selected as an astronaut candidate – what was that moment like for you to know you had a chance to become an astronaut?
I had applied for the astronaut position first in 1980 – the second time they accepted post-Appollo astronauts. I was lucky to get an interview but I wasn’t selected. I was one of 120 interviewed out of 6,500 or so who applied. They only took 20. I was disappointed, of course.
A few years later, it was a rainy afternoon and I remember thinking that I would be disappointed if I didn’t do everything I could to maximize my chance of becoming an astronaut. I called the head of the selection board and asked him why I wasn’t selected. He told me in a polite sort of way that they weren’t sure if I wasn’t just a pointy-headed scientist. He then offered me a job on his Mission Control team. I threw away my scientific career and moved to Clear Lake, Texas and worked on the control center for the fifth shuttle mission, later working my way up to payload officer.
I applied again in 1984 and wasn’t selected again. I though then that it would either be three strikes and you’re out or three’s a charm. In 1985 I was selected. I was one of 13 and it was common for many of us that we weren’t selected before.
I started training in 1985. To answer your question – I was just excited. This was six months after the first of the two shuttle crashes. We trained for 30 months and none of us flew for six years, until we flew in April of 1991, which was a great flight.
I know you have done four spaceflights – logging over 35 days – and a few spacewalks – what were your roles on those flights?
Every crew member has assignments. On my first flight I was assigned to do the first spacewalk in five-and-a-half years. We ended up having to do two – one a day earlier than the scheduled one to fix a satellite. We’re still the only crew to do back-to-back spacewalks by the same two people.
The second flight I was the flight engineer. It was a 24-hour-a-day job – we had a lab mission. I was one of four folks who were there to keep Orbiter facing the right direction and keep the systems all going. We broke into two shifts and I was the commander of the first shift.
The third flight we were doing radar mapping – that and two other flights are where Google Earth got all of its data for its elevations.
The fourth mission was to go to the Russian Space Station Mir. Our job was to do a crew exchange – we brought one person to go on the station and brought one crew member back that was there for six months. My job was to get us within 300 feet of the station, then the commander brought us in those last 300 feet on a very difficult process. From there we exchanged crew and supplies.
What would surprise people most about the experiences in space – what misperceptions do people have?
I’ll tell you a story of something that happened when I was giving a talk in North Texas after a mission. After missions we were expected to fill out a lot of NASA public appearances. I gave a talk and showed a movie of the flight. After the talk a lady came up to me with a big beehive hairdo. She said “Well, I wish I had gotten to hear your talk before NASA debriefed you!” I asked her what she meant and she said “I know they told you not to talk about the creatures you saw up there!” I told her that I wish we had found life. If we did NASA would have gotten a lot more of the money we needed!
Lastly, as a Pittsburgh guy – are you a sports fan? Any unique sports memories to share?
My dad used to take me to Forbes Field as a kid. I have the misfortune of being a Pirates fan. My wife and I got to see Paul Skenes pitch this year. I just hope the Pirates are able to emulate small market teams like Milwaukee and Kansas City that beat our butt every year. I’m tired of the small market team excuses!