First off, why did you start Pro football Consulting and how is it different from others?
We work primarily with the agents and assist them in their work with clubs. We won’t say no to working with a player but most of our work is in assisting agents with legal and cap issues.
Mark Levin here has worked on contracts before there was a cap and I started in ’95 working in marketing then spent eight years working on cap issues. After that I went to law school and for essentially 19 years did work with the NFLPA, representing players in their disputes with clubs.
What did that work entail?
Sometimes on things like injury settlements, fine appeals…
I also worked on issues involving if agents broke any rules. I represented players and took some of those cases to arbitration. If an agent gave advice to a player they knew would cause financial issues we’d represent the player. The agents have a fiduciary duty to the player. A good example is, before 2006, teams could claw back monies given to a player if they missed time – like if they held out. One player we represented held out of mini-camp and the agent never advised them of the clawback concern, so he lost all of the money he earned playing for that team due to the clawback allowance.
Now, those rules have changed and teams can’t clawback money like that any more. It’s up to teams to negotiate their own terms. I think that makes sense. I’ve seen where teams have clawbacked two years of salary and that’s unfair. They finally got that out of the CBA.
What do agents usually need help with the most now?
We have a cap and legal department. Usually the big guys have their own resources so we work mostly with the small and mid-size agencies. But we don’t say no to the larger agencies.
The best cases I won I never filed – I got ahead of them. That’s when you can manage them better. The issues agents call us with are varied. One agent called because a player was traded and his mortgage was already paid off. Well the CBA has a provision that traded players get two months of rent or mortgage if they are traded – but only if they still had a mortgage or had to break a lease.
We also get calls on what happens if a player skips camp- what those repercussions are.
What’s the biggest misperception agents and players have in their discussions with clubs?
Leverage matters! Really that’s with all negotiations.
But how do agents gain leverage when players are in a sense “run down” by clubs in negotiations in order to justify lower pay – how do you keep those relationships and discussions comfortable?
That’s the reason for having an agent. That three percent may add up to a lot of money but it’s not a big percentage. But to sit in that gap between the player and management – to shield the player from that is important to maintain a team’s culture.
I’m a big believer in work culture. If a team isn’t a good team you can count on them not having a good work culture. If the front office isn’t fair or reasonable in negotiations it takes that culture down. You want agents there to make it less personal. You hear the Bengals head coach talk about Trey Hendrickson’s frustration at his negotiations – he said it was just business. But asking a player to put their emotions aside often goes against what makes them a good player – you need emotion to play, so it’s not easy to do that.
Those negotiations can get tough. It’s like crabs in a bucket – you hope you get out alive! You want to make it to the top of the pile and get out. It’s hard for an agent to manage those player expectations too. How many jobs for college students involve 90 of them going to the office and the team telling them that 37 of them won’t be there for long?
What are the big contractual or other concerns coming up that worry you?
I don’t know how they’ll add another game to the schedule. Players ultimately will be the ones to make that call. If I was a player I’d say “No way.” These guys get beat up so much already. Maybe they’ll make it rich enough for them or take away preseason games. But the NFL doesn’t sell how beat up players get over a season and the players don’t talk about it a lot either – they want to make their hay too.
NIL is so new – we’re seeing how it’s interacting with the NFL. It keeps guys in college longer and that’s probably better. Veteran players get more time in the league and the college guys get more time to develop and are more ready when they get to the NFL.
So, I think the NIL will be good for the NFL. And it’s great for the college athletes who are good but don’t make it professionally. It’s not fair how the NCAA uses athletes up. If a player can be a very good player but not make it professionally at least this allows them to make some decent money. There will be less sad stories for those guys.
Any concerns with NIL?
How agents fit in. The whole point of the NCAA in terms of regulations was to keep agents away from giving money to college players. It used to be that they couldn’t recruit underclassmen. Now they do it and just call it “marketing.”
Like PACs in politics?
Exactly like that. There will be mayhem until there are laws to clean it up. The NFLPA – their concern is not letting the college NIL agreements follow the player to the NFL. They don’t want the agents’ hands in their pockets as they get to the NFL. They are trying to breach that barrier at times – but we want players to start fresh when they get to the NFL level.
Are there other issues/concerns that worry you as you look into the future of the business?
I am biased but that doesn’t mean I’m wrong. I’m realistic. My perspective is getting it is one thing, keeping it is another. Clubs are always trying to find a way to take things back. Two years ago we had a case where a club was telling players they needed to sign liability waivers to get medical care. No, they don’t. The CBA says you get that care without provisions. An agent called us asking what it was about and we told him that was not acceptable.
These are the things agents have to look out for. Especially if you’re a younger or newer agent – teams may try to take advantage of you. It can be maddening and why I love this job – to get ahead of stuff like that. Agents – they need to call the NFLPA whenever they have questions.
I learned the difference, for example between the various types of strains dealing with this stuff. I had an agent who said a player wanted a second opinion before signing an injury waiver due to an ankle sprain that he felt was more severe than the team had indicated. The team said he needed to sign the injury waiver that day – so he couldn’t get a second opinion. Well, no. I don’t care what the team says – you are entitled to get a second opinion.
Many feel the cap is somewhat “make believe” due to the many ways teams can work around it – thoughts?
Good! When the cap happened Gene Upshaw got holy hell for agreeing to it, but he knew clubs couldn’t help themselves! Good! Get around it and keep going! Keep spending! It gives the NFL some certainty but gives clubs flexibility to get around it. So great! No one can deny it’s been good overall for everybody.
How important is that relationship-building between teams and agents?
I only know from what I see – how issues are resolved by clubs. As a lawyer I rarely talk to the clubs – I talk to the lawyers. Once I get the facts from the players and clubs I can get to the real story and see things get resolved. If a player has an issue and they are at fault and the team offers a reasonable deal, I tell the player they can fight it if they want but if the offer reflects the liability they should take it.
How are Steelers unique in their player dealings from what you’ve seen?
The Steelers have always been reasonable from my experience – that’s how adults work. Only one case I had with them went to a hearing. Reasonable people can disagree but we’ve always figured things out. If the Bengals drafted my son I’d say “Oh, no!” But if the Steelers drafted him I’d say “Great – yeah!” Let’s put it that way!
As a general rule, I’ve seen successful teams as the ones with a good culture. The Steelers have always had that as I understand it. Not just player culture – employee culture. The ones that don’t are usually not successful.