First off, can you let us know what you’ve been doing since your football days?
Now I’m a practicing attorney in Washington, DC. I’m a criminal defense attorney – its something I always wanted to do. It caught my interest early on and I really enjoyed law school.
Was the adjustment from football to post-football life difficult? Did playing help you as a lawyer in any way?
Indeed it was. I had to get glasses, for starters! In law school I was reading 250 pages a night!
The competitive nature – that need to compete. When I first tried cases I’d find out who the prosecutor was and go to their trials if they had one before mine. I did it kind of like a scouting report. The judge would always laugh when he saw me and ask if there was a reason I was there!
A lot of folks also don’t realize how much trash-talking there is in football. When I’m in the court room I’ll object to leading questions and other things just to see how they responded and handled it. Anything you can do to shake them up, just like when you played!
Stepping back, how did you end up with the Gladiators in 1987?
I was a defensive back and was released by the Bengals – they had drafted two defensive backs that year. Dick LeBeau was the defensive coordinator then and told me it was just a numbers game – they had two All-Pro safeties. I was cut at the 52 mark.
I went back home and worked out. They had an all-comers workout for the Arena Football League. My high school coach suggested I try out for that so I went. It was like a traveling circus – they had the coaches from every team and league officials come to watch the workouts. AFL coach Tim Marcum and Joe Haering – the Gladiators coach – they were there for my 40 yard dash and were surprised at how fast I ran. I ran a sub 4.4 40. They had me run it again, then a third time. My high school coach just arrived then and asked me why they had me keep running them. I guess they were impressed.
How did you make the transition to receiver from defensive back?
It was difficult. You play both ways in the AFL but I always wanted to be a receiver. But when Chuck Noll says you’re a receiver, the NFL thinks you’re a receiver!
When I left Pittsburgh I played for the Vikings and they gave me incentives as a defensive back and receiver, but I practiced for a week or so as a defensive back and was moved to receiver. It took the joy out of it for me. I was a defensive back in college and wanted to stay a defensive back. But you do what you can to help the team.
The rules were different then – you could get away with more as a receiver now than you could then. It was more difficult. I was ready for law school then anyway so it wasn’t as big of a deal for me to move on. I considered coaching for a bit but decided to go to law school. I told my parents I was going to be a lawyer when I was in seventh grade.
Did anyone help you most with the transition to receiver?
Tom Moore helped me – Mouse Davis did in the AFL too. Both said they wished they found me in high school. I felt like a fish out of water and probably looked like one as a receiver. Tom Moore was patient with me – it just got to the point where it was frustrating for me. It wasn’t natural for me as a receiver.
John Stallworth was helpful too – he hurt his knee and that’s why they shifted me to receiver. Chuck Noll showed up at my room and said “Let’s go for a walk.” We talked a bit and ended up at Tom Moore’s office. They told me they needed a receiver since John Stallworth got hurt and told me I was the guy! Back then the organization was so family oriented. It was so rare how much it was – everyone drank the Kool Aid and did whatever was needed to make sure the organization did well.
Did anyone have an issue with you crossing the picket line during that strike season?
No one had an issue. Mike Webster crossed the line and I went with him! I told anyone that if they had an issue take it up with him! He was a leader and I wanted to play – especially as a rookie.
Any fun stories of your playing days?
When I was with the Gladiators they had an open roster – guys got hurt a lot playing both ways. Rock Richmond was a friend and there with me and went to the Steelers as well. He played in the CFL too – when he was with the Gladiators he had some of his CFL guys come down to play in the AFL. Well, they were on the Chicago team and we were all in the hotel before a game playing dominos. They started trash-talking me – how they were brought in to shut me down. They told me there was no way I was catching four touchdowns a game versus them! It wasn’t going to happen!
Well, in warmups they saw me with my uniform on and asked how I could let them talk trash like that to me. I ended up scoring three touchdowns. They told Rock “See – we told you he wouldn’t score four touchdowns!” Rock was just laughing – “What are you talking about? He still scored three touchdowns!” Rock was a good friend – he was good to me.
Another funny story about Rock. He signed with the Steelers after me. When he came in he didn’t have an agent. I was in my room when one of the trainers knocked on my door – I thought maybe I was getting cut! But they asked me to go to the conference room. I got there and found out Rock wanted me to to be his agent and help him with the contract signing!
I was really just happy to be there with the Steelers. They had such a good coaching staff – Tom Moore, Tony Dungy and Chuck Noll. To play for those three guys was special.
What do you think of the NFL today?
Wide receivers today – there was no opportunity to act like they do now then. We didn’t have the luxury of showing out like they do now. Back in the day if we caught a long pass for a first down and celebrated like they do now, we’d have gotten an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. I’m not thrilled with what some of them do now. I’m all for safety, but some need to get hit!
It’s amazing seeing how fast some of the linemen are today. And the salaries are crazy. But the Super Bowl is still one of the most watched sporting events in the world. So the NFL is still doing very well!