First off, what have you been up to since your time in the NFL?
When I left the NFL, I was rehabbing my shoulder. Surgery fixed it and I was running every day and stayed in shape, and ended up playing in the CFL. I still wanted to fulfill that chapter as a player. I went to the Gray Cup with British Columbia but unlike Baltimore, we didn’t win the championship. We lost to Toronto by one touchdown.
A couple of years later I went and played for Toronto and British Columbia won it!
When I was in BC guys played golf and video games – I was not excited to do that. I was a business major and decided to get into real estate. I got my license while on the team and trained with the best real estate team there during the offseason. That’s how I learned the business. I made as much in my first three real estate deals as I made in my annual salary in the CFL!
What football skills translated well to the real estate business?
For the first five years, I never let people know I played football and was a Super Bowl champion. When my mentor found out he thought that was stupid! I started mentioning it more after that – it was a good way to start conversations with people. I changed my lingo after that!
Just like in the NFL, you have an owner who sets the agenda. You have a GM and coaches which are like the top agents in real estate who work with everyone and run the team. Then you have the starters which are your best agents. So it’s similar to football that way.
I played for seven teams in one calendar year. I also learned all about getting playbooks down. The same in real estate too – learning the Gary Keller coursework was key for me. The first class I went to Gary Keller compared the adversity needed for real estate to being a football player!
How did your football career and passion start?
I only started playing when I was in ninth grade. My family didn’t have a lot of money and I went to a small school, so I didn’t play football until the Junior football coach asked me to play. I said no but he kept asking me to play. I finally said yes and started off playing tight end. I was the first ninth grader to play tight end. Then I was moved to running back and quarterback. In Toronto we only had about 20 or so plays in the playbook. I could show off my running skills that way.
I had some VHS tapes of my play. I went to the library and did some research on colleges in the states. I identified 50 and sent typed letters to them all saying I could play all the positions. 10 responded with VHS tape requests and 20 asked me to fill out a questionnaire. Kent State called and I ended up being the only athlete from Toronto to get a scholarship that year. There were 16 other players who could have gotten a scholarship but they didn’t pass their SATs. I passed mine in ninth grade – I took it early – they just waited too long to take it.
At Kent State we only won seven games in five years. But I broke tight end records and had OJ Santiago teaching me. Even though we just won five games though, we had a number of guys go to the NFL and win Super Bowls. A lot of people don’t know that.
James Harrison was actually my teammate there – he was a year behind me. He was so strong but then he couldn’t run. I could run three 40’s and he couldn’t keep up. I told him he needed to keep running – he was so strong then but he couldn’t keep up.
Were you surprised to get drafted by the Steelers?
I broke my right hand my Senior year at Kent State. At the time I was ranked 32nd in the nation. I talked to the doctor and he told me it wouldn’t get any more broken! So we spent 40 minutes every day wrapping it up. I caught more passes after I broke the hand – I should have broken it sooner!
I went to the combine after that – Kiper had me ranked as the fourth tight end. I ran a 4.6 40 and a 4.52 40 for Mike Mularkey at Kent State. I was no Mark Bruener or Jerame Tuman as a blocker. I learned so much from them.
I figured I’d be a day one pick – I was ranked fourth! But after a couple of tight ends were drafted round one, none were picked again until much later. Five more were taken 0 but still not me. I think because Kent State played just two top teams a year, that was my downfall. Finally my roommate got a call and tried to sound like an agent on the phone. “Yep, he’s right here.” he said. Then gave me the phone – it was Coach Cowher. He asked me how I was doing and told me that I should know that “In about 10 seconds I’d see something on the screen. Oh. nope. There it is!” And that was my name running across the screen saying I was drafted by the Steelers.
The way I saw it – I was born to be a Steeler. I was a blue collar tight end – I worked hard. I never missed a Summer practice at Kent State. Not one. Other guys were going home but I had the passion and wanted to stay. That’s how dedicated I was. I didn’t want to go back to Toronto. I wanted to change my family tree.
Any good stories about Harrison?
He figured things out after a while and became a Hall of Fame player in the NFL.
I was as strong guy – I benched 225 six times. But going against James Harrison and Levon Kirkland – those were the only two players I was ever scared of. Harrison – when I blocked him and got a hold of his chestplate, if I held on too long you could see how angry he got.
Kirkland was the same way. He used to tease me and made me sing at the rookie lunch. So I sang the Canadian national anthem – in French. He didn’t understand any of it – he got so mad!
It’s funny, when I was back in Pittsburgh after Baltimore, Cowher and Colbnert asked me about Harrison since I played with him. I told him there were only two guys I was afraid of. Kirkland – and they giggled at that – and Harrison.
My Kent State teammates and I laugh now. Harrison couldn’t run three 40’s back then, but in the Super Bowl he ran 100+ yards for one of the biggest plays in history!
What happened though after camp ended?
I got the tap on my shoulder when I got off the bus. That’s when you know you are cut. I had a great camp but didn’t get a lot of opportunities. Often times a team will not play a guy a lot year one to hide them and out them on the practice squad. I thought that was what was going to happen to me. But I went into Colbert’s office and nothing special was said. I thought “That’s it?” They didn’t have me talk to anyone after that.
So I drove right afterwards back to Ohio. I was four hours in when Coach Mularkey called and asked where I was. I told him I was on my way to Ohio! He told me I had to come back. He asked if Cowher talked to me and I told him no one did. He told me Cowher was supposed to have talked to me – they had a plan for me. He told me they’d call next week to get me back on the practice squad. But when I got to Ohio I got a call from the Titans.
What did they say?
They asked me to come to camp. It was a job – I decided I couldn’t wait for the Steelers. Coach Fisher said to stick around and they’d put me on the practice squad. They had McNair, Wycheck, George – I felt good about that team.
I got calls after that – Pittsburgh wanted me back. I talked to Coach Fisher and said I wanted to stay. I talked to Coach Mularkey and told him I appreciated their interest but they should have spoken to me when I was in Pittsburgh.
After that, Wesley Walls got hurt in Carolina so they called me and asked me to be on their active roster. I thanked Coach Fisher and went to Carolina. Reggie White greeted me and shook my hand. I thought Levon Kirkland was big! When I practiced against him he could throw me around like a Teddy Bear. That was the first time I was able to dress for a game – it was a dream come true. I was there for three weeks until Walls came back and then they cut me.
So what happened after that?
Green Bay called the next day and signed me. I was there for four weeks and got to play with Brett Favre, my idol at the time. When the regular season ended Baltimore called. They lost a tight end in their first playoff game and said I was first on their list. They asked if I could come the next day and I asked if they could fly me in that night instead, and they said “Oh yeah!”
We played Tennessee the next game – when I was on the field they Titans players were all shaking my hand and the Ravens guys were trying to figure out who I was! After that I was the only Canadian player in the Super Bowl so TSN had an interview with me – my teammates were asking again “Who the f*ck I was!”
After all that, I played for five teams and never missed a check!
Having played for Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati – what were the big differences and similarities between those teams?
Truly, a big part was coaching. The attitude you develop in the players you bring in.
Brian Billick – he was amazing in bringing people together from different backgrounds. He could speak to anyone and unite guys – smart or not so smart, aggressive or thinker… he could speak to anyone so well.
Cowher and Fisher both played the game – their coaching structure and expectations were clear. Pittsburgh – they expected you to hit and run a thousand miles an hour in practice – in pads. In Baltimore Billick didn’t have them practice as much in pads – he expected quality routes and plays then get off the field. He didn’t want guys getting hurt. They were in it for the long haul.
Tennessee was similar to Baltimore – and they could have beaten us in the playoffs if not for a couple of missed kicks.
But what I did notice across the teams that won – they invested in their players’ health. The food and nutrition – they fed players well – and good food. The food was always there and it wasn’t stuff like chicken nuggets. The successful teams I played for – that’s what they did. And I played for 12 teams so I know!
Also – the winning teams, their superstars played like superstars. When Plaxico got paid like a superstar but didn’t play up to one, they let him walk. You have to have that fire in the belly, and it’s hard for teams to find those guys.