First off, can you let me know what you’ve been doing since you retired from football?
I’m currently the Associate Director for Michigan State’s Spartan Fund – the fundraising arm of the athletic department. Prior to that I was living in Indianapolis and worked as an Assistant Athletic Director at Marion University – an NAIA school. I loved the work but wanted to get back to the level of school I had played at and ended up getting a job here. I never thought as a Wisconsin Badger I’d be working for Michigan State!
Was the post-football transition difficult?
It was somewhat liberating trying to find that new dream. I had to find something new – I was always laser-focused on football. But I knew I was done. I was a short-armed, slow defensive lineman and I knew there were dozens just like me that NFL teams wanted to look at every year. I didn’t want to play Arena or Canadian football. So I looked for something new and found my passion in fundraising. Not knowing where I’d be as a free agent was stressful – it was liberating to get away from the stress and find something new to be passionate about.
How helpful has your football experience been to you now in fundraising?
It’s a set of experiences people are eager to hear about. I have an understanding of the game few can have – it’s a level of experience and understanding fans wouldn’t have. It’s also helped me understand more about the decisions the coaches and organization make relative to the football team. I can understand more about why they make some of their decisions.
The world of an NFL locker room is a bubble – when you’re in it you’re totally ingrained. There aren’t many comparable experiences to that. And the level of detail required to succeed and make it at the pinnacle of the sport stuck with me. Just the very principle of being exceptional stayed with me.
Looking back on it, why did you decide to sign with Pittsburgh as an undrafted free agent?
It was about the best roster spot opportunity. Baltimore and Pittsburgh were the top two choices – my agent and I looked at the roster numbers for both teams and it appeared that my best chance to make the roster was in Pittsburgh. Baltimore drafted a defensive lineman in the middle rounds and the Steelers drafted Stephon Tuitt – we knew he wasn’t going anywhere. But we felt that the chance to beat out the rest of the guys was better in Pittsburgh.
Were the guys helpful when you got there – any of the guys take you under their wings?
Some were helpful. Cam Heyward and Brett Keisel were – Brett came in after camp but he helped then. Steve McLendon too.
But at some point there was a limit to how much help they gave you. You were expected to be a professional and take care of your own business. Coach Mitchell really fostered that type of mindset. It was rough at first but you knew that if you could make it through to the other side it got better.
So many linemen talk about the toughness and impact of Coach Mitchell. How was he with you?
Of all my memories there, I won’t forget getting an earful from Coach Mitchell. That was part of the growth process but there were always those moments that make you start to question why you are there. He liked to break you down and build you back up. If you showed him that you were dedicated to the work and the process, he would reciprocate though. No matter how frustrating and intimidating he was, you never questioned the reverence he had for his players and the game.
How did some of the guys help you, when they did? What did they show you?
It was more about the cadence of how you go about your day-to-day. How to structure your day and time so you position yourself to have the best chance to be successful.
Something you were doing caught the coaches’ eyes. What do you think you did right to make the team?
I was technique-sound and worked my butt off. I was grateful for the opportunity and approached every day like it might be my last. And one day it was.
I approached it as a privilege to be there, and I think they noticed and appreciated that. Even if I wasn’t the most talented or athletic player, they knew they had someone who was dedicated to the process and who was assignment-sound.
Any memories stand out most to you over your time there?
In preseason, getting my first sack versus Philadelphia. And playing against the ones versus Jacksonville and Buffalo. Those were special moments.
In practice, going up against Pouncey, Decastro and Al Villanueva. I got close to Al over my time there. The most important thing was just how they treated you there. Troy introduced himself the first day I got there. He went out of his way to find everyone who came in on their first day to let them know he would help them in any way if he could. That just stood out to me. It was such a high-character approach to things. He, Brett too – they knew what it took to be successful.
I also loved the rookie class I came in with. Martavis – it’s crazy he’s coming back to the league! Dri, Rob Branchflower, Shazier….it was a short time in the league for most of us but it felt like years as we all tried to make it together. A few of us only made it but they were all good people.
And I loved Latrobe – I loved that experience.
I also liked hanging around in the offseason. I played in the Steelers Basketball League which was a blast. It was great to play against the local police and fire departments and meet people in the community.
And seeing Coach Tomlin in the offseason playing pool in the locker room with the players who stayed around was fun. Kevin Colbert was more present too. It was just a different feeling than when you’re in-season. It was less stressful and fun to see them in those moments and to see Tomlin communicate with his players like he did.
What did you take away from your time with Tomlin – what made him so unique?
I learned what it took to be a professional watching him in the team meetings. He had diverse personalities in those rooms – guys with different skill levels and backgrounds. He knew how to manage and lead everyone.
He was great in making sure everyone knew they would be treated fairly but not equally. He taught us that you needed to understand where you stand within the organization. That influenced how he treated you.
How did that play out? What did he do exactly?
He had the ability to hold anyone accountable – he was masterful at that – no matter who you were. He’d talk to guys like Pouncey, AB and Le’Veon differently than say a back-of-the-roster guy, but he was masterful in how he handled either one.
I kept a notebook of Tomlin quotes and concepts. He was great at the X’s and O’s but it was beyond that. He was a master at building a culture. You could see why people wanted to play for him and followed him, especially when I talked to guys on other teams who told me it wasn’t like that there.
What wasn’t the same – what was different about the culture he created?
It was the transparency. What are the hurdles you have to overcome to be successful in the organization and what is success? Pittsburgh was unique in that they spelled out the metrics and standards you needed as a player to make it. It was clear and transparent. Other teams were less clear. Players didn’t know what was expected of them to be successful and make it. He always says “The standard is the standard” and that meant that everyone knew what that standard was you had to reach to make it there.
What happened that second season when you were released?
After my second season we had the exit interviews and I had mine with Coach Tomlin and Coach Mitchell, and they told me they wanted me back. My agent called and told me he had other options for me though – two other teams had interest in me – Houston and Baltimore. They must have seen my film and liked what I had shown. My agent felt like I could have a faster track to the active roster on those teams than I would have had in Pittsburgh. But I decided to stay in Pittsburgh – I believed in the mission and the organizational values so I chose to stay.
But shortly after that they signed another defensive lineman and decided to release me. I got the call late in the evening when I was at my hotel. I packed my bags and drove back to Indianapolis that night.
How difficult was that for you?
It was a life lesson on the business of the NFL. It just showed how life can change at the drop of a hat. It was about nothing I did – it was just a roster change. But that stuff happens every week across the NFL. I wasn’t ready when it happened, but few guys are ever ready and get to leave on their own. I wasn’t bitter – I was just like anyone else in that situation. I got to understand that part of the league and am grateful for that.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
