First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to lately?
I live in Colorado, near Denver, with my wife and kids. I’ve been working out, fishing, skiing and playing a lot of basketball. I think of myself as semi-retired – I’m staying in shape just in case someone calls.
Were you aware of the Steelers-Browns rivalry when you were drafted by the Browns?
I wasn’t really super aware of if – I grew up in Wisconsin so I was aware of the Packers-Bears and Packers-Vikings rivalry more. I heard stories about the rivalry of course.
I remember my rookie season we went into the week against the Steelers and they played a video for us at the beginning of the week. It showed the old Bernie Kosar days in Cleveland – Steelers linemen slamming Kosar and Browns linemen slamming Terry Bradshaw. It was funny because the teams are so close geo-politically. I think that makes them hate each other more – they are so alike yet root for different teams so hate each other because of that.
Did you have anyone who mentored you most in Cleveland– how so?
Joe Thomas – on and off the field. He was a future Hall of Famer of course. Tank Carder and Demario Davis too. Demario was a pro’s pro – a locker room leader. Tank was a great sounding board too.
The biggest thing they helped me with – Demario especially – was how he went through his week. He was so disciplined in his weekly structure – he did everything at the same time every week – massages on Tuesdays and workouts the same days. His body knew what to expect that way and he was always prepared.
You were a big sack guy in college – close to 10 your Senior year. Why move inside in the NFL?
In college I was a 3-4 outside linebacker. Me and TJ played the same position at Wisconsin before we switched schemes. I like to say I taught TJ all he knew!
My rookie year in Cleveland I started off as an outside linebacker. It was crazy as a rookie starting in camp and lining up and pass rushing against Joe Thomas. That was a huge eye-opener versus what I faced in college! Then I moved inside. We had a change at defensive coordinator at the end of my rookie year. I played off-ball on the scout team my rookie year and really enjoyed it and did well. I lost 15-20 pounds that offseason and got down to about 225 pounds the next year and was moved inside. Gregg Williams likes to claim he started that move inside but I was the catalyst!
What memories of those rivalry games stand out most to you?
That was when the Steelers had Ben, Le’Veon and AB all balling out. Being on the field versus them was incredible. We always played well versus them – especially in the first game. I have some good memories of running Le’Veon and AB down – those were confidence builders for me personally even if we lost those games!
Of course the Myles Garrett helmet-bashing game too. The funny thing about that game was I had 11 tackles, two sacks and an interception against the Steelers but no one remembers that!
How did Cleveland handle that post-game?
I remember being in coverage downfield and turning around and seeing the scuffle. I was at the 40 and I just stayed there – I was like “What the heck?” I didn’t want to get involved and I’m glad I didn’t because everyone close to the play got fined.
That was the first time we beat Pittsburgh while I was there but instead of celebrating in the locker room, it felt more like a funeral.
Were you happy to be traded to Pittsburgh by Jacksonville years later – was is strange playing now for a former rival?
That was the business side of the game that takes over. I know the rivalry was important to some players but I was just new to the team and experience. I didn’t feel any type of way. I just remember coming in and Tomlin telling me to “Hop on and get ready!” I was traded three weeks into training camp so it was really a crash course on the defense for me.
That was my seventh defensive scheme in six years. Cleveland churned through coaches and Jacksonville had two defensive coordinators in one-and-a-half years. The biggest thing was learning the linguistics and how they liked linebackers to play. It was different than any other place I played. Like Tomlin said. “It was like hopping on a moving train.”
What was so different about the way the inside linebackers played there?
The scheme was based more on the defensive line and outside linebacker play and pressure. TJ, Cam and Highsmith had more freedom to freelance because they could make plays. You had to be sound with your gaps as an inside linebacker but those front line guys had more freedom to do what they wanted so it was harder to rely on gap control. Usually as an inside linebacker – like in Jacksonville – everyone had their assignment and you kept it. But those three in Pittsburgh were so impactful they made sure to give them more freedom – it just made it harder on the inside linebackers.
For me, Pittsburgh had a revolving door at inside linebacker for a while because of that. Ryan Shazier was the perfect Steelers inside linebacker because he could really run everything down. It was less about X’s and O’s – he was just so fast and athletic he could react and make those plays.
Did anyone in Pittsburgh help show you the ropes when you got there – how so?
My locker was between TJ’s and Derek’s. They were old college teammates so they helped me. The coaching staff was there for such a long time and they had so many veteran players on that team – way more than anywhere else I’d been. It made for good continuity. But it was also less structured because of it. With all of those veteran players, players were expected to be professionals on and off the field and the coaches didn’t take all of their time checking on them every day. They were expected to do everything the right way without all of that governance by the coaches. It could get lax at times but you were expected to do the work. It wasn’t like other places that were more structured – where they’d expect you to be in certain places like the weight room or film room at certain times every day. You were expected to be professionals who could figure that out on your own.
Do you think it was too lax at times?
For Pittsburgh it works because of the veteran players there. They had been there for so long. But if it was a bunch of young guys like we had in Cleveland it would have been a dumpster fire. It was the same defensive scheme for years too so as a defensive player that helped – there wasn’t a lot of re-learning. I think for some of the young guys that got there later it may have been too lax for them, I’m not sure.
Any funny moments during your time there?
My best memories were playing cards with TJ, Derek, Alex, Wormley, and Boswell. We’d watch college games and talk smack – especially if our teams were playing each other or one team was playing really poorly.
Any good bets on those games?
We were the small bet crew! We weren’t the big bet crew across the room. Those were the high-roller tables with Ebron, Haden, Cam and those guys!
And the deez nuts jokes! You always had to think about how you answered TJ’s and Derek’s’ questions because they were always trying to set you up for those jokes.
Jerry O. had some funny mannerisms too we’d make fun of and Keith Butler had some old school expressions we’d laugh at too.
What are your thoughts on next steps – any projects you’d like to explore next or are you happy finding time to spend with the family now? And you know the Steelers just lost two of their linebackers….
I watched that yeah. But if I go back now and pop my Achilles my ski season would be over!
So I guess we know where your head’s at then!
I guess so! It’ll also be my first Christmas at home with my family so I’ll be thinking a lot about that if Tomlin gave me a call! Now if a 12-1 team calls me, that’s a different story if I have a chance to go to a Super Bowl!
No business prospects on the horizon?
My wife opened up a dance studio last year and it’s doing well so I support her in that. I may start to do some combine prep training but that’s not official yet. I love to fish so I thought I might do some guide fishing too. Basically any part-time work to keep me busy, but not too busy. I’m starting to feel that itch now after having not played for a while!
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