First off, let me know what you’ve been up to since your time in the NFL?
After my time with the Redskins I got married and we bought and moved to a farm outside of DC, then sold that and moved to Lexington, Virginia. Then after that I got into real estate then started a bank and acted as the CFO and COO.
Unfortunately after that I got divorced, sold my interest in the bank and moved to Charlotte. But I’m here in Lexington now taking care of my mom and working some commercial interests I have here.
How difficult was the post-NFL adjustment for you?
I retired due to injury. It was extremely difficult for me, but I graduated with a Business Administration degree and a degree in accounting. That worked out for me, but it was tough being out of the league. I focused on work – that’s who I am, and I managed to have a good career.
What brought you to Pittsburgh in 1991?
At Notre Dame I was a defensive lineman. Ron Blackledge was the offensive line coach then in Pittsburgh and thought I could play offense. He brought me on. He pulled me aside before the draft and asked if I would consider playing offense, but I was drafted as a defensive lineman by the Bengals. Soon after that had asked Sam Wyche if I could switch to offense, but he said no at first. I asked to be released and he finally acquiesced. I was on the practice squad and saw other offensive linemen and felt I could do that.
Going to Pittsburgh – the city was great and the press was good to the team. The enthusiasm for the team was awesome – it was a great place to play. It’s a great organization – you can see why they win.
How were you able to make the transition to offensive lineman?
Truthfully, I just watched the linemen and did what they did. Joe Moore used to be the offensive line coach at Notre Dame. As a defensive lineman I would go to practice early and watch the offensive linemen do drills. Joe would force the linemen to do drills without their helmets on to make sure they didn’t duck their heads when they were pass blocking. If you ducked your heads it would lead to sacks. In practice without helmets on, if you ducked your head you’d get your nose broken – that was one way to learn. And that happened to some guys!
So I watched that and learned by watching and doing. I can tell you now who’s going to win a game at the start by watching the offensive linemen. They give up so many sacks today because they duck their heads when they block.
Any of those guys in Pittsburgh help work with you in the four weeks you were there?
Justin Strelczyk and I became good buddies. When I was with the Redskins later he’d call me and teach me how to play the banjo over the phone. He was light in the ass but still really good at pass protection. He was a good player.
What happened after that four weeks in Pittsburgh?
After Pittsburgh my head was turning – I wanted to stay on offense. My agent told me no one had expressed interest in me. So I on my own went to my dad’s office and faxed a letter to every team East of the Mississippi telling them I was available and wanting to play on the offensive line. It was actually a pretty harsh letter. But I got six messages on my machine from teams expressing interest. I fired my agent after that – he never went and asked the teams if they had interest in me.
After Cleveland called I hired Neil Cornrich as my agent and signed with them. He’s a great person and a great agent. Pittsburgh made an offer as well but Cleveland’s offer was at the third-round pick value so I didn’t miss a beat.
In fact – in Bill Belichick’s foreward in Mike Lombardi’s book, I was one of four players Bill mentioned.
Were you prepared for those Browns-Steelers rivalry games?
I grew up in Cleveland. I delivered the Plain-Dealer and read the sports pages when I delivered the papers. So I knew about the rivalry for sure.
Those games, we didn’t fare well versus the Steelers. It was tough to go to Pittsburgh and win. It was always a huge game – the cities never liked each other even before then. I think it was the Rockefellers and Mellons who were at odds a long time ago. The Rockefellers ran their railroad around instead of through Pittsburgh to avoid tariffs and cost a lot of people jobs as a result.
Any good memories from those games?
I remember Herman Arvie – he was a backup offensive tackle for the Browns. He was lining up against Greg Lloyd and Lloyd gave him a spin move inside and I hit him good. He told me it was a nice hit – that was probably my favorite Pittsburgh moment.
Bill Belichick also had a comment for me when I was blocking Kevin Greene too. He told me I had an “M.E.” moment. I thought he meant that I had won some kind of award. Later I learned that was short for “Mental Error”.
Any good ones of your time in Cleveland?
I remember Steve Everett – he was a great player – their former number one pick. He didn’t bring fancy bags to pack his stuff when we traveled to games. He’d use a Kroger’s bag and packed his underwear and toothbrush in there – if he even packed those!
But in Cleveland Belichick would yell at us about how messy we left the film room. One day he was yelling at us and as he was doing that, Steve was trying to rip open this bag of potato chips. He was trying to tear it up when finally it tore open and chips went everywhere and covered the guys in his row. But Belichick was so busy yelling at the guys that he didn’t even notice!
Bill was my favorite person to play for. I never interacted with Chuck Noll in the short time I was there – as one would expect. We were on our way to good things under Bill before we moved. He was a great head coach – he was all about football.
I enjoyed Cleveland – the stadium and the Dog Pound. I was actually in the Kevin Costner movie they filmed here – Draft Day. I just recently saw that I was standing the endzone in one of the shots near the end of the movie!
What do you think about the way the game has changed today?
It’s a different game now. It’s not a bad game, it’s just less physical. We had to work a lot harder when we played in practices and camp – we had two-a-days and it was much more physical. I don’t appreciate today’s game as much.
I have some issues – I’m in good shape physically and can’t complain but I do have some cognitive issues. My memory isn’t great – I know the NFL is trying to figure this stuff out.
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