First, can you let us know what you’ve been up to since your time in Pittsburgh?
It’s nice being retired! After Pittsburgh I worked at IMG handling financial planning strictly for football players – I was the VP there. It was fun for a while but I didn’t like it as much as being on the ownership side.
I was hired by the Houston Texans after that – I worked there until 2006, but my then-wife didn’t like Houston, so she and our kids moved back to Pittsburgh, where she was from. I continued to work for the Texans for a while, going back and forth to see my kids. But it was too much of a struggle – my kids were young and I missed being able to see them.
So, I came back to Pittsburgh in 2006. It was a difficult decision – I liked working with Charlie Casserly there and Dom Capers too. I enjoyed it there but I just had to go back.
But you came back to the Steelers right?
In 2007 Art Rooney called me – he said there were some things going on there and he heard I was back in the city. That they may be making some changes so if I didn’t have anything else going on, would I be interested in coming back to the Steelers? I said “Yeah.” I was doing some accounting then for an orthopedic surgeon but that was about it.
So in March of 2007 I had lunch with Art and started back in June. They had given Omar Khan my job when left – they needed me to do more basic accounting stuff as they brought in more minority partners. I’d work with them – guys like Paul Sams, Jack McGinley, Thomas Tull – I got to know many of those guys well. I’d help them if they needed tickets or jerseys – that kind of stuff.
How did you get started with the Steelers in 1981?
I was an accounting major at St. Vincent college. The placement woman there told me the Steelers were looking for an Assistant Controller. They interviewed one or two people from Pitt, Duquesne and St. Vincents. Dennis Thimons interviewed me – he said the fact I played football a bit helped me – and that’s how I got the job.
How does the negotiation process work – from start to finish?
People I don’t think understand how small we were then. Jim Boston and Dennis Thimons and I handled most of that stuff. I did the accounting, football operations and travel at first. I didn’t start working negotiations until my second year. I started off with the college undrafted free agents – which was a mad rush after the draft. Many of the them were pissed off at not being drafted so it wasn’t much fun. You had to babysit them a bit. You’d call saying you had this offer and give them a little signing bonus and asked if they were interested. That was how I eased into it.
After a few years I started working on draft choices. After Jim Boston retired I did a lot more. If wasn’t complicated then. You’d find out who represented the player and called them and told them what you could do. A lot of people felt it was easier before free agency – we had exclusive rights to those players, But it wasn’t easy – we’d offer what we could and had a lot of hold outs. Woodson held out into October and those were major disruptions to camp.
What information do you go in with as you negotiate?
I’d find out what others around the league at their position made and start from there. But most of it was subjective. It came down to how much we wanted them and how much they were worth to us. The biggest battles you had were really inside the organization. Dan got more involved over time and he wasn’t easy – he didn’t like to spend a lot of money. That made it hard to get players in the framework of what we’d spend for them.
Players seldom got involved in the discussions. It was mostly with the agents. We’d tell them what we felt we could pay for a player. The Steelers had a reputation then of being strict compared to other teams, but we felt we were being reasonable. It often just came down to the coaches and player personnel not wanting a guy as much as an agent thought we did.
How much input did the coaches have?
There was a different philosophy with Dan. Bill in his first season definitely was more demanding of what he thought we could do in paying players. He was much brighter than some realized and over time he understood the cap limitations.
We didn’t go into free agency thinking we had a certain amount of money to spend. Dan looked at each player on an individual, one-on-one basis.
A good story about Cowher on that. We were having difficulty signing Merril Hoge and Bill was passionate about keeping him. We felt we went to the limit of where we could go and Bill was adamant we should give more. Bill rarely pushed the envelope but this time he asked me if it would help if he went and talked to Dan. I told him that I didn’t know, but he felt strong enough about it that he went and talked to Dan.
Well, as Bill likes to tell it, that meeting didn’t go very well for him. Dan laid it out clearly for him – he coaches and we handle the financial end. Bill and I laugh about it to this day. When Bill came out of Dan’s office I asked him how it went. He smiled and said “Who’s the next man up?”
Any negotiations or situations that stand out most to you over your time there?
The Mark Malone contract was the first big one I dealt with. Art and I worked together on Rod Woodson’s. I worked with Gene Parker there as his agent. The Mike Merriweather holdout – that lasted the entire season. That was crazy – he called Dan Joe Stalin because he was so upset over the negotiations.
Woodson was such a great player. He ran track in Europe while he was holding out. I remember Chuck Noll wouldn’t even say his name. Tony Dungy told me that after Woodson’s first practice when he came to camp, Noll was so happy he was there. Noll seldom commented on players but Tony talked about how impressed Noll was after that first practice.
How do you negotiate without insulting the player – how hard is it to walk that line?
It’s not Pythagorean theorem to be honest. We just made sure we stayed positive about them. The Rooneys were always adamant about making sure we stayed positive with players. I agree it’s difficult to justify to a player an offer when he thinks he’s better than guys who got paid the same. The biggest issues we’d face is if we overpaid our own players. We can always say we don’t agree with another team’s offer, but if we overpaid for a player at the same position and tried to pay a better player the same, that’s when you get into real trouble.
Before the cap you had heavier incentives for players too. If they played 50% of the snaps they’d get so much money, if they caught a certain number of passes…. We’d have five or more players every year come close to hitting the incentives but not quite making them – he still gave them their incentive bonuses. The Steelers were the only team that did that. That was back when you could do that – before the cap. That was back when giving a guy an extra $25,000 or $50,000 was a lot of money.
People understood the Steelers were fair to deal with. Difficult sometimes but fair. We developed trust with the players.
What other memories stand out to you from just being with the team?
Nothing crazy – I remember how disappointed Mike Webster was when he came back from the strike and wasn’t able to get a week’s salary. He ended up talking to Mr. Rooney and got it figured out.
I have fond memories of when all the coaches came back before camp started. It was a busy time for the coaching staff, but every July Chuck would find 45 or more minutes to come by the office and talk with me. He’d ask what I did over the Summer, talk about what he did, the stock market, whatever. But he did that every year. I’ll always remember how much I enjoyed those conversations.
Bill Cowher and I formed a great friendship too. He was a sharp guy. Just being able to get close to Bill, Dan, Art, Ralph Meacham, Dennis Thimons and the Rooney family…it was a wonderful experience.
And with players too. Franco always treated you well. He was very warm. Mel Blount and Bob Kohrs and Frank Pollard – Mark Malone and Greg Lloyd … I became good friends with many of the players. And Kevin Greene – I remember how disappointed he was when we couldn’t re-sign him.
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