First off, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your playing days?
I’ve been down a lot of different avenues since football. I taught for 10 years and was in sales a couple of times. I also did mental health counseling. I did a lot of different things trying to find something that would fit for me.
I enjoy what I do now. I’m a service manager and make good money. I walk over six miles a day and we all get along and laugh with each other every day.
How difficult was that post-NFL transition for you?
Honestly – to be blunt – it was hell. It took me six years to understand that that part of my life was over. That I wouldn’t ever play again and be ok with that. I suffered from depression and anger and things of that nature. Once I got accustomed to the fact I could be good at being a regular person, I was ok with it.
How did you get through that?
A lot of prayer – that was it. Unfortunately, I was not married to a good person and that didn’t help me at the time.
You started off in Chicago but ended up in Pittsburgh in ’93 – what brought you to the Steelers – why sign with them?
Draft-wise, Pittsburgh called me in the seventh round. They told me to stay by the phone, but they ended up taking Alex Van Pelt. They called me back right after to sign me as a free agent. They told me to sign with them and that I’d be sure to make the team. But they didn’t offer me a signing bonus. As a 20-year old kid, when a team like Chicago puts a $30,000 signing bonus in your face, you think it’s the world. But Chicago didn’t work out for me.
At the same time one of the Steelers’ draft picks didn’t work out so we ended up reconnecting.
Who took you under their wing and showed you the ropes in Pittsburgh?
Tim Worley knew about me. My position coach in college was from the same hometown as Worley. But I was told while Tim was a good guy, he had his issues and I should keep my distance from him. So that was awkward.
Kevin Greene was a big help. He wasn’t insecure about his position and me coming in to take it away from him. He showed me things that helped. In college I played strong safety – I wasn’t accustomed to doing a lot of things that linebackers need to do. I was used to filling gaps and running through alleys. I wasn’t used to holding my position as a linebacker – that was not what I practiced for years in college. Kevin helped me a lot with that.
The offensive line guys hated me. I started off on the practice squad – I was just gung-ho to be on the team. The first several weeks I practiced like it was game time. I went full speed. The linemen started telling me that if I didn’t slow down they’d hurt me. Finally one of the offensive coaches pulled me aside and told me the line had a hit out on me. That I needed to slow down. After that John Jackson and I had some words – I told him that when I make millions like he did I’d slow down, but until then he should buckle his chinstrap. He just got more upset after that!
Carlton Haselrig – he put a wrestling move on me. That slowed me up – definitely made me think twice when I went up against him. But I didn’t worry about those other guys!
Coming from a smaller school, what was your biggest adjustment to the NFL?
My thing was – I understood they were just football players too. Even though I was from a smaller school like Appalachian State, I could have gone to Colorado or Clemson. I was just a late bloomer. Some people said coming from a smaller school I wasn’t as good as some of the other guys but the two best games of my career were in Death Valley.
What caught the team’s eye do you think to help land you a roster spot?
I think my tenacity initially, and my size. I was 6’4″, 245 pounds. I could run with the safeties even at that size. On special teams they couldn’t block me with a defensive back – I was too big for them to block. And when they put someone on me my size I could outrun them. So that gave me a big special teams advantage. I think Cowher enjoyed seeing me do that – that’s how he made his living when he played.
You got a lot of playing time for an undrafted free agent linebacker on a playoff team. What was the experience like for you?
The Kansas City playoff game is the only game where I can find of me playing on YouTube! It was a different environment – I played in some big games in college but that game felt like life and death. I didn’t want to be the reason why we went home – I didn’t want to be the guy who made the bad play that cost us that game.
What are some of the best on-field memories you have of your time in Pittsburgh?
I think the same game I dislocated my ankle – the preseason game versus the Raiders. Rocket Ismail – I guess he thought he was fast enough to outrun my angle to get to the sideline. I blasted him around the 22 yard line. I mean I blasted him – and it was on our sideline. Our guys were so pumped up. That play really fired the team up. I remember that vividly.
I remember straining my ligament between my big toe and next toe. Charles Johnson was blocking me in practice and I couldn’t put any pressure on it. He looked at me and told me I gotta do better. That bothered me. I was trying and practicing even though I was hurt. I should have been getting treatment but I wanted to be out there playing.
Any good off-field memories/experiences?
Lonnie Palelei and I were like brothers. We were homebodies, but it was hilarious at times. He was really like family to me – we still talk often. HIs kids are like my nieces and nephews. I always enjoyed that.
What did they tell you in ’95 – what happened that you were released?
I made it through the ’93 and ’94 season, but ’95 was when the injury took place. I wanted to play – I didn’t want to sit. So I played with the injury and I think it made it look like I wasn’t good enough to play.
I found out I was cut actually while I was watching TV at my house. My agent called and told me they wanted me to stay in Pittsburgh – that they would bring me back later. But after a month-and-a-half I realized it wasn’t going to happen and went back to Georgia.
Any thoughts on the NFL today?
I do watch it – more during the playoffs. I’ve always been a Steelers fan. Growing up in Georgia, the Falcons weren’t usually that great. I needed another team to pull for and I chose the Steelers. So playing for them was great. Meeting Joe Greene, Jack Lambert, Franco Harris…I was asking for their autograph in my game uniform. I’m still a Steelers fan today.
As far as the game today – these guys today are monsters. I thought I was fast for a guy my size, but now 270-to-280 pound guys are doing what I did. I could have played in this era since I was more of a ‘tweener, but they’d have to use me in different ways for sure.
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