First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your playing days?
I’m just spending a lot of time with my family since I retired. It certainly was tough adjusting to life after football. There aren’t too many professions that you get to work in front of 80,000 fans.
How did you manage the transition?
You rely on your sense of self and what sports taught you. To handle the challenge in front of you – to take those lessons of perseverance and discipline and apply those. To stay close to those core values.
You were a multi-sport athlete coming out of high school – how did that help you in your football career?
Playing running back in high school- playing basketball, football and baseball – that made me a well-rounded athlete. But the desire and willingness to compete is the essential part. One reason that some skilled guys don’t make it is that they can’t grasp the task at hand and don’t have that willingness to compete.
Also – playing three sports – you learn to have great vision – especially as a running back. The important element is vision and to make sense of things in real time. Any running back worth his salt has good vision. So when I made the move to linebacker in college that helped me. If you see things quicker you react faster, and that’s everything.
What brought you to Cleveland after being drafted by the Rams?
I wasn’t working out in L.A. under Coach Knox – the new head coach there. Cleveland had interest in me – Belichick was new there and went to the Rams to trade for me.
I remember when I got there that first week we had one-on-ones in practice. They didn’t know what they were getting with me yet. But after practice the coach told me he knew I would compete.
How aware were you of the Steelers-Browns rivalry when you got to Cleveland?
I grew up in Akron, Ohio so I was well aware, yeah. But I never really took things personal when I played. I know the importance of the game when we played the Steelers, but I never took it personally. It hurt more to lose those games than others, but the approach was always the same. I learned that from coaches I played for. You prepare the same way for every game so there’s no added pressure. If you practice every situation the same way the pressure doesn’t exist.
What was it like playing for Bill Belichick then?
He was a great guy. A lot of guys thought he was too tough but I thought he was a creampuff. That was at the time when the world of the athlete was changing – they hardly practiced like we did earlier and I started seeing that then. I grew up with tough coaches though and had no issues doing whatever they told me to do. But a lot of guys had problems with Belichick.
What was going on there?
A lot of the players thought they were coaches. It was a tough locker room in Cleveland. Belichick’s predecessor was Bud Carson and he was the ultimate player’s coach. If it rained hard they’d go inside to watch film instead of practice. Belichick was a disciple of Bill Parcells – Parcells was a guy who believed the last man standing made the team. So it was an extreme culture shock for the players.
When I came over from the Rams I thought the players were being pampered. I heard them say camp in Cleveland was hard but it wasn’t any harder than what we did in L.A. It was much ado about nothing. Belichick had to fight that during his time there.
But despite those obstacles he led that team to its only playoff win in years until just recently. And what made it worse was when in ’95 they announced the move to Baltimore mid-season. From there it was just tough to keep that shit together. It was all CYA then for the players. No one knew what the transition to Baltimore was going to be like so everyone was playing for themselves. It was a turbulent time.
Were there any matchups you remember and liked – or didn’t like – when you faced the Steelers?
I can’t remember names. But one thing the Steelers did – and the 49ers too – was that their linemen got on you in a hurry. When they get on you that fast you’re always playing catchup. It doesn’t work well for you then as a defensive player. You’re making tackles five-to-six yards downfield and chasing wide receivers that get behind you. The Steelers were always prepared and well-coached.
The environment there was nasty too. The field and stands – I liked nothing about it. And I say that with all the compliments in the world. It’s a credit to that home field. It took great performances by guys like Eric Metcalf to get us a couple of wins against them. The Steelers were never soft like some teams were.
The one play I remember most was when I was rushing the quarterback in the playoffs and a running back cut me. I had to have surgery on my knee as a result. That just showed how tough those games were.
What do you think of the rivalry today?
I think it’s still there with the fans. The players? I don’t know. Maybe it’s changing over the last year or two, I’m not sure. But I don’t know if it has that much meaning with the players like it did then. It’s still the biggest game on the schedule for Cleveland fans though.
One of the highlights over my time when I worked with the alumni association was when we played charity basketball games against some of the Steelers players. The benefits went to charities and we got to know those guys a bit. We’d go get some beers after the game. That was fun getting to know them outside of the game.