First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your playing days?
I was pretty banged up when I was done playing. But I always knew I wanted to be a cop. In college we had police officers that helped handle the security and I got to know them. They told me that when I was done playing I should give them a holler. When I was done I reached out to them and they helped work with me to show me how to get on the Wichita police force. I started the academy in February of ’89 and retired as a Sergeant after 27 years.
After that I did some coaching but I got bored of that, so I started working as a policeman for the local school district and I really enjoyed that. I liked working with the kids there.
What do you think about your football career translated well to working as a policeman?
A lot of it was about discipline. You have to have that in law enforcement and football – that’s important. I also met a lot of people playing football from a lot of different backgrounds – ethnic and geographical. I got along with everyone as long as no one tried to mess with me! I think that helped me as well.
How did you end up with the Steelers in ’86?
After college I went undrafted. My coach at Wichita State, Ron Chismar, he called the Steelers and got me a free agent tryout. I signed with the team after that and reported to mini-camp with Ron Blackledge as my position coach.
I think I got into a fight every day at camp when I first got there. I wasn’t dirty or anything but I just got out there and went at it.
Mike Merriweather helped me a lot – and I probably fought most with Darryl Sims for some reason.
Anyone help mentor you when you first got there and take you under their wing?
They don’t really tell you anything. That’s part of it I think. They wanted to keep you on edge. The vets didn’t want much to do with you until you proved yourself, and you’re out to take their job too, so there’s that. The coaches would coach and work with you but there wasn’t much rah rah type stuff. I think that was the biggest challenge for me – maintaining a positive outlook.
I did get close with John Rienstra that first season – he came in when I did. We became pretty good friends. When I was later moved to center Webby {Mike Webster} worked with me on the position. Tunch Ilkin too worked with me on some technique stuff. Mostly on blocking techniques and my foot and hand work. That was the biggest thing – learning how to stay balanced. That footwork and mobility were big as an offensive lineman.
What do you remember most about those camps?
The hardest hit I ever took was by Donnie Shell. I was pulling out for a sweep and he just played run support and got underneath me and leveled me. It was all a good time though. All business but we had fun times too.
Any of those fun times stand out?
Hanging out with Bubby Brister. He was a good guy – crazy though. But I liked him. When I played center he was helpful working with me. He helped when I missed a call – those kinds of things. As for stories about us hanging out – I better leave those ones alone!
Why did they move you to center – that’s a big move for an offensive tackle?
Yeah it was a big move. My first season I tore my groin and was placed on IR. When I was cleared again for practice I started off at left tackle then they worked me across every position on the line – in rotation. Ron Blackledge – he believed in me and I had a lot of respect for him. I think they were looking for a potential future center after Webby- not saying I could ever have replaced him but I think they were looking at the future there.
What do you remember most about your first time getting on the field?
It goes back to that mental aspect of the game. I felt shellshocked when I first got on the field. That first game was against the Chicago Bears – the ones that just won the Super Bowl. I was lining up across guys like Richard Dent. I was thinking “I just watched these guys win the Super Bowl!”
To be honest with you it got in my head at first. I didn’t have a good first series and they sat me out then put me back in. Once I got back in I played better and had a good game. Coming from a small town and small school, I think it just got to my head. The thing is, you have to take advantage of those few times when you get a shot like that.
Any other on-field memories stand out?
I was playing center against the Eagles and Terry Long was at guard. Reggie White was in and Terry was just talking trash to him – running his mouth. I remember turning around and telling Terry to shut up. I was the one who had to block him! I didn’t want him getting Reggie any angrier! I had a good game but it was a funny moment. I was just telling Terry that he was killing me here!
I liked going up against Merriweather and Robin Cole in practice. They were good guys and would talk to you if they saw you doing something wrong.
Do you watch the NFL today? What do you think of the game today?
To be honest I like watching college football more. The NFL might as well just play seven-on-seven. I appreciate they are interested in eliminating injuries and taking care of guys. I had both knees and hips replaced and my shoulder rebuilt. But you can’t get away from the fact that it’s a collision sport. And protecting the quarterback like they do – they shouldn’t treat them like they are more important than other players. They aren’t. I know that’s an opinion that might get me in trouble!
I will say I enjoyed playing football and doing so at a level that one-percent of American men ever get to do it on. I’m also though proud of my career in law enforcement. Law enforcement I know is under fire these days. But I know I helped a lot more people over my career in law enforcement than I ever did playing football.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
