First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your playing days?
I’m a realtor now. Before that I did some coaching at the high school and junior college level.
Anyone help influence the way you coached?
Oh of course, yeah. My Junior college coach John Becker did – he later became a scout for the Rams. He showed me the discipline part of the game. I never played football in high school – I played just a few games. I was lucky that when I went to junior college I became an All-American there. He and Harry Welch, who was a legend in the Northern California area. Those two taught me the discipline part of the game.
So if you didn’t play in high school how did you end up playing later on?
As a young boy when I lived in L.A., we had a big problem with gangs. I got into fights every day – my mom said I’d be dead by 18. I thought she was telling the truth.
I dropped out of school then – more in a way to save my own life. I was from a single parent household and had three sisters – I was fending a lot for myself. I wanted to play sports though – I knew that if you played sports then the gangs would leave you alone. But I tried and never got a rep. So that’s when I dropped out. But back then they gave you what they called “Social promotions”. They’d promote you through high school even if you dropped out.
I went back but they wanted me to play “B football” – that was like junior varsity. I said I would only play varsity or I wouldn’t play. Then one day I saw a neighbor in a suit and I asked him why he was dressed up, and he told me it was for graduation. I told him I wanted to graduate too but he told me I didn’t have the credits. So, I checked myself back into school.
What happened then?
We got a new head coach – I went up to him and told him I wanted to play. He asked me who I was and I told him I was the best player he was going to have on the team! He asked me if I even played and I told him “No.” He just walked away from me after that.
Later I tried out for the team – they had me play wide receiver to go up against the defense and I caught everything they threw at me. He asked me how I knew how to play and I told him I learned from watching the pros on TV.
Later they put me at defensive back – I told them I thought I would be better on defense. I had six interceptions in my first three games but then I was declared ineligible because I didn’t officially check myself into school – I just kind of did it on my own. So, I went and finished school officially after that. My coach then took me personally to L.A. Valley College and talked to their coach. I played there and was an All American both years, then I got a scholarship to Oregon after that.
How did you end up with the Steelers after college?
I started off as an undrafted free agent with the 49ers and was the last cut there. Then I went and played three years in the USFL for San Antonio. After that I went to Pittsburgh and played in the Arena League for the Gladiators. That’s where the Steelers found me and signed me.
How did they bring you in?
Russell Hairston was a good friend of mine and we played together in the Arena League. When they signed him he told them to bring me along too. I was a few years older than Russell and he looked up to me. I was a no-nonsense guy and he and I got along well.
How was your adjustment to the game – did anyone take you under their wing?
I understood the game. Getting cut was worse than death for me – I could never get that lump out of my throat. Tony Dungy – he looked at me after five sets of one-on-ones then brought Chuck Noll over and told him he needed to watch me play.
Tony Dungy showed me how to be a professional and helped me with technique. Tony implemented a safe Cover-3 defense then – he didn’t want to teach too much to us since we had little time to get ready since we were strike players. The Cover-3 was great – you didn’t have to backpedal which made it easier for me. When guys backpedal too fast you get out of position – I understood that and excelled at stopping the slant and hitch routes.
Any good memories stand out to you there?
I remember when Dungy told John Stallworth that I could cover him. He ran a post corner in practice and caught the ball – he was in Pittsburgh and I think I was still behind him in L.A.!
After that Hairston went and tackled me! He wanted to give me a hard time for letting Stallworth beat me! He told me Stallworth beat my ass! But John – he told me I did a good job – that meant a lot to me. I still remember that – that meant a lot.
Bryan Hinkle was there too – I went to college with him at Oregon. He wasn’t that good in Oregon to be honest. He got so much better when he got to the NFL.
How did they get you and the others on the same page so quickly?
I was able to go to a team that fit my style of play and played for coaches that understood me. That was important.
Tony Dungy – he told me I was just a player looking for a game. Many of us were in that same boat. We all knew we had to get everything right – we couldn’t make mistakes if we wanted to last. We all knew this was our last shot.
What happened after that season?
After the strike they let me go and kept Larry Griffin. I felt Griffin couldn’t shine my shoes, but I think they felt I was too small. I was 168 pounds and I think they felt I wouldn’t be able to hold up over a season.
Do you still watch the NFL today – any thoughts?
It’s so watered down now – it’s not fun to watch anymore.
One good story. I coached at Santa Monica Junior College – we were practicing and there were a lot of guys out there on the field working out, including some NFL players like Vince Evans and Rocket Ismail. And there was another guy working out there who was very good – he played for another junior college though but wasn’t getting any playing time. I talked to him for a while then a few weeks later I brought him back to my coach. He was from Florida and we usually didn’t like kids from other states – they wanted more money and often didn’t go to classes.
But, I talked to my coach about him. He said that they didn’t want him because he was from Florida, but I asked if we could work him out anyway. He came in and ran some routes – the receivers coach right away said he’d take him.
Before that kid graduated I called John Becker who was now a scout for the Rams and told him to come see this kid – that he was better than any receivers they had on the Rams. Becker took him to a Rams-Chargers scrimmage.
That kid was Isaac Bruce. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame a couple of years ago and he invited me to the ceremony – he even mentioned me in his speech. That was a great moment.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
