First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your playing days?
Now, I’m the VP of Business Development at NAES – we operate power plants. I work with hedge funds and equity mangers – folks like that.
I got into it by complete accident – around 25 years ago. I was working construction for my dad’s company when he decided to sell the business – he wanted to retire. So then I went to work for a water company. But a friend’s father told me that I should go work in the power business and I’ve been there since.
How was the post-NFL adjustment for you?
It was different than most. I played for Lou Saban at the University of Central Florida. I got into football because my dad loved football. He went to Penn State on a scholarship but blew out both of his shoulders in his first season. Back then you didn’t come back from that.
He pushed me to play football. I was born one level from being legally blind in my left eye – I was told I could never play football. But my dad pushed me to play. Then when I was a Junior in high school I got Osteomyelitis and blood poisoning – sports were out of the question then.
We moved then to Florida. We found one doctor out of six that would let me play as a Senior if I signed a waiver. So I did that and started that season. The high school just went into existence two years before – it was a small school with a hodge-podge of players, but we went to the first round of the state championship – I was the quarterback then.
What happened then after high school?
I went to Slippery Rock as a Freshman – I wanted to go to Penn State but I didn’t get in. My dad brought me back after that to Florida and I enrolled at the University of Central Florida. I had to redshirt but played quarterback until my Junior year when I blew my shoulder out and they moved me to tight end – and I punted too.
I ended up leading the team in receptions. But after college in ’85 I decided I was done. I was supposed to enter into the draft but I chose not to.
My dad wasn’t happy about it. He got some calls from agents – the Steelers, Dallas and Giants were interested in me. I went back and forth with my dad – he wanted me to play and I didn’t.
In ’86 he took me out to dinner. He apologized to me and told me he realized I was never good enough to play and he should never have pushed me.
A little reverse psychology?
Exactly! I wanted to prove him wrong after that! At the time Mike Kruczek was the quarterbacks coach at UCF and I trained with him. My uncle was friends with Wellington Mara. They flew me up for a tryout with what was supposed to be about 50 other players, but it turned out to be over 200. At the end there were just two of us left – they let the rest go. A lineman and myself. They wanted to offer me a contract but they had Mark Bavaro there and another backup as well. The Steelers had expressed interest in me then too so I told my dad I wanted to sign with them instead. My dad wasn’t thrilled.
How did the Steelers visit go?
Ron Blackledge picked me up and told me they wanted to do a quick tryout first before I signed a contract. It was impressive coming in and walking by those four trophies.
I threw on a t-shirt and shorts and we went to a field – it wasn’t the stadium – it was some dirt field near the stadium. Well, I ran a five-yard pattern then they asked me to punt the ball a couple of times. I told them I didn’t even have time to work out but they didn’t care. It was ridiculous – after that they asked me to sign a contract.
I told my dad and he was beside himself he was so happy. I told him I didn’t have a lawyer to help me with the contract but he told me not to worry. I signed a 50-20 contract – it said that if I got hurt they’d only have to give me $20,000 instead of the full contract. I figured I wouldn’t get hurt right?
What was camp like when you got there?
It wasn’t like what you see today. Two-a-days every day – it was a beating. I was only 205 pounds – I was slow but I could catch and punt too. I got into a fight with David Little – it must have been for 30 seconds bit it felt like much longer, and no one comes in to break those up. I was bloodied – I took my helmet off which wasn’t smart! But after practice we were all fine.
We had me, Preston Gothard, Cap Boso and Brent Jones then in camp. Brent went on to win those Super Bowls in San Francisco. All those guys got hurt at some point so I practiced constantly. And it was hot – the offense wore the black jerseys and helmets in that blistering heat.
The Chicago game was my first preseason game – that was right after they won the Super Bowl and they gave us a beatdown. We played the Redskins after that and I played less in that game – they liked to stagger their players then.
How was it going for you then?
Before the third game against Dallas they asked me to punt in that game. They wanted me to practice versus Harry Newsome – I wasn’t warmed up but they told me not to worry about it. I think I out-punted him in practice. I was excited to be one of the few to punt and play another position in the same game.
I was fine that day. But the next morning I got up and took a step and hit the floor. I didn’t know what happened at first. Then I saw my ankle was swollen to three-times the normal size. It was broken.
I begged and pleased for them to let me go to the Dallas game. They shot my ankle up just to keep the swelling down. I wasn’t going to play I was just going to get to go be with the team. When they gave me the shot they hit a vein so there was a lot of blood, but they just wrapped it all up.
Well I’m on the sidelines and someone got hurt, so I ran on to the field and played a couple of plays before Chuck Noll saw me. He was furious when he saw me and stopped that right away.
What happened afterwards?
They put me on IR, then when I came back I was pretty much a tackling dummy in camp. I was still playing at least. I still have a piece of the turf in my room by the way. It was hard as a brick. We were more afraid of hitting the ground than we were of other players hitting us!
One funny moment. I was used to playing in Florida and it got cold in Pittsburgh. I remember in practice I had sweatpants on under my uniform, a sweatshirt and the jackets they gave us that we could wear under our pads. I could barely move. Well, I smell smoke behind me and turn around. It’s the Chief laughing at me. “Cold there boy?” he asked. I said “Yeah”, and he says “Welcome to Pittsburgh, Hollywood!” After that someone taped “Hollywood” over my locker!
Any other fun memories you have of your time there?
I used to hang out with Bubby and go to the bars and nightclubs with him. Lupe Sanchez would come sometimes too. John Stallworth’s locker was next to mine. He actually gave me his shoes to wear – his were much nicer than mine!
Terry Long was a good friend. He would work out with Mike Webster – those workouts were impressive. Terry was short but one of the strongest guys I’ve ever seen. He’d do leg sleds with all the weights on them and Mike pushing it. It was impressive. He had no neck but was built better than anyone on the team.
Donnie Shell was a character. As rookies we had to carry a ball around with us in camp. Donnie was that guy – the guy that would walk around and try to knock it out of your hands.
I was friends with Rich Erenberg too – me, he and Gothard would go to a bar in Greentree all the time – they loved us there and had our pictures up there.
Any fun stories you can share?
Bubby was always fun to hang out with. He would sometimes hang out with Gary Dunn – another character. Bubby tried to hang with Gary but there was no way he could handle that.
Bubby and I got into trouble once with Chuck. We went out and got back late. When we walked in Chuck invited us to his office for a chat. He asked what time we got back. “11:00?” we said? He said “No.” Well we said, “It couldn’t have been later than midnight!” It was 2 am – and we had practice the next morning.
What did he say to you?
Nothing good! He laid down the law. We were also drinking with a bookie – nothing bad – but you would rather get caught with a drug dealer than a bookie.
And Dan Turk was another wild guy. He once got into a fight at a bar and split someone’s ear. I don’t know how you do that. But Darryl Sims and some other guys rushed him out and left me behind! My car was stuck in a garage that locked up early – I had to call a cab to get home.
So what happened after that first season?
Chuck told me he wanted me to be bigger and stronger. He wanted me to get to 235 pounds. I asked him how I was going to manage to do that. He told me I was going to go home and work for my dad doing construction. I asked him how that would get me to 235 pounds, and he told me I needed to figure that out. I was happy at least that he told me what I needed to do. I was 205 pounds at the time.
So, I did two rounds of steroids in six weeks and when I came to camp I was at 235 pounds. I was never that strong in my life. But I had to stop the steroids before they did testing – and when I did that I lost all the weight. I played for two weeks but had a few headshots that were pretty bad. Ron Blackledge and I also didn’t get along well. I was too small for his liking.
So what happened next?
Ron told me he was releasing me. I was loading up my car when Chuck came up to me and asked me where I was going. I told him I got cut and he told me to wait a minute and went back to talk to Ron. He came back again and said “Yeah, we’re letting you go.”
Wasn’t it strange he wasn’t aware you were being let go?
He listened to his coaches.
Football was fun – and I was good at it. But to be honest I didn’t take it that seriously. I didn’t think any of the tight ends were as good as me – I didn’t think I’d be cut. And my weight was also a problem – I was better suited to play off the ball – in the slot.
What do you think about the game today?
I think the idea of the game is lost. We didn’t make a lot of money then but we were dedicated. I think today’s guys are babied – I’m sure they’d disagree. But if Noll told us to stand in a corner then we’d say “Yes, and for how long?” Not like guys today – they aren’t gritty like we were. Today they take a hit and get upset and are slow to get up. That was just part of the game then.
I know it’s a comedy but I liken when we played to North Dallas Forty – the movie. Guys were just tougher then I think. Lambert was a thin guy but no one was tougher. And we worked in the offseason just to make money. But that was ok because we were loyal and dedicated to the game.
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