First, what have you been up to since your playing days?
I’ve been all over the place. I retired about nine years ago. After I was out of football I did the Bengals pre and post game shows on the radio and was a TV analyst for Louisville’s football games.
At the same time I had an advertising company that I ran for over 10 years.
Other than that I’ve been taking it easy. I was talking to Isaac Curtis – I feel every bone in my body these days – my body aches even just doing the little things!
How was that post-NFL adjustment for you?
I had some challenges over the past few years. I have atrial fibrillation and had two unsuccessful cardial ablations. I had the third a few months ago and I’ve felt the best I have in years – knock on wood. A lot of people have atrial fibrillation – I had mine for the last 30 years – after football. I had an irregular heartbeat but not symptoms until recently when it started to really bother me – that’s when it can be really dangerous.
I feel now like I did when I was nearsighted and got glasses – I remember looking outside and thinking “Wow, this is what the world looks like!” I feel good now.
I also had cervical spine surgery four months ago. I’m cleared to play golf but I haven’t gotten out there yet. I’m taking my time.
Looking back on your career, who were the guys that really helped mentor you?
The first guy was Kenny Riley – who should be in the Hall of Fame. 65 interceptions speaks for itself. When guys ask me for the reason why he should be a Hall of Fame player, I tell them I can give them 65.
Our defensive backs coach then in Cincinnati was a former head coach – he knew the game but didn’t know much about the position. Lamar Parrish and Kenny – they taught me most of what I learned. I watched Kenny and he’d talk to me a lot about the position. He was a quarterback in college and made that transition in the NFL – he was an amazing athlete.
Isaac Curtis – he was quiet and low key, but it was amazing to watch him. You learned to stay ready by going up against him. He was tough and was a world class sprinter. If you could cover him one out of three times you were good!
The first season I was hurt but my second season I came back and there were rumors I was going to replace Riley – but he wasn’t going anywhere. Parrish was gone and they were looking to replace him with Mel Morgan. I remember in practice I was covering Isaac and he ran by our defensive coach, and as he did he yelled to the coach “You got your two best defensive backs on the same side!” I was on the same side behind Riley then. Well the next day they moved me over to the other side and I started the next 10 years.
Was there any one specific thing they showed you that stands out most to you?
The biggest thing was something Kenny talked about. He told me I had to learn to forget the previous play. All defensive backs get beat, but he said that he watched me and not much seemed to bother me, which was a good thing. That’s something that Riley had about him. Lamar, you could see things linger with him sometimes. Isaac Curtis also was a guy who didn’t let things bother him. You can be intense and still low key like Isaac was. Some people misread that and think you’re not intense but in a lot of ways being that low key is helpful.
What was your introduction like to the Steelers rivalry?
Oh my gosh. The first game I played was in Cincinnati. That was my maiden trip versus the Steelers! That was in ’78 – back when Swann and Stallworth were there. Swann had seven catches for 70-plus yards and a touchdown. Not big stats now but back then that was a big day – they just didn’t pass the ball that much then. People were talking about me – that I didn’t look very good. I knew I had to perform better the next time. I’d line up against Swann every game – back then the receivers and defensive backs rarely switched sides like they do today.
The next game was in Pittsburgh. Swann had zero receptions and I had two interceptions. We still lost 6-0. But I felt good about the game. From then on I had good games against Swann.
What made that matchup so good for you?
He was less of a problem for me for some reason. Some boxers – you’d think they’d have an easy time with a guy that didn’t win many matches, but sometimes those matchups just work out differently. Just the fact it was a rivalry for me and my style just made that matchup work for me I guess.
Of course I struggled against Ricky Feacher who didn’t give most guys a problem, so go figure!
Any play that stands out most to you?
I think in that same 6-0 game, my best hit in my career was the one I made on Rocky Bleier. We were in cover 2 and I was in zone coverage and Bradshaw threw the ball to Bleier on a flare pattern. I just happened to see it quickly and when I hit him it felt like I broke him in half. He was a tough ball player – he got up slowly. The guys were asking me if I was ok. It was the biggest collision I ever had.
I imagine you still watch the Bengals play?
I love watching them now. I went to the Vegas game and the Super Bowl last year with my kids and Isaac. I enjoy watching them. They have a hell of a quarterback in Burrow. Andy Dalton was a good quarterback but he just wasn’t the playmaker Burrow is. Burrow can make those plays with his legs and arm Dalton couldn’t make. You either have it or you don’t. Dalton just couldn’t climb the pocket and make the plays Burrow can make.
In fact, if Marvin Lewis had Burrow instead of Dalton I think he would have won a Super Bowl. He had teams that were better than this Bengals team, they just didn’t have the quarterback. If Dalton was starting for this Bengals team they don’t go to the Super Bowl. That’s how important the quarterback position is.
What do you think of the Steelers-Bengals rivalry today?
It’s funny. My daughter went to a game in Pittsburgh – her company took them to a game. She was excited they were going to be tailgating. She called me later and asked me why I didn’t tell her tailgating was outside – it was cold! She told me the Steelers fans were mean too. I told her they weren’t mean, they just love their team!
But the rivalry is always better when both teams are playing well. It’s still a big rivalry. It’s ingrained in the conversation.
The Bengals handled the Steelers pretty well last year. That doesn’t usually happen. Now the big question is who is going to play quarterback for the Steelers. But the rivalry still feels the same. A lot of Terrible Towels still in Cincinnati – the Steelers fans travel well and they are close to each other. The cities are close and the games are tough. I think the rivalry will be good for a very long time.
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