First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your time playing football?
Well, I got married in ’88 – I met my wife at Robert Morris University. We moved to Florida and had three kids – one son and two daughters – all went to college on sports scholarships. I run a construction business here – mostly painting. My dad was a painter in Pittsburgh so I figured I would pick up after him.
I coached my son’s baseball team and daughters’ basketball teams – some high school football as well. Other than that, I go to the beach and hang out, and have two grandkids.
You were a Pittsburgh guy?
Yeah – I went to Carnegie High School with Bill Cowher. I played on the varsity football team with him and we were both on the basketball team too.
Your first stint with the Steelers was in ’82 – then again in ’87. How did you get that first stint with the team?
I went to school at Wisconsin and was there for one year – then I transferred to Pitt. But I wasn’t a school person – I dropped out and ended up playing semi-pro ball for the Pittsburgh Colts. We worked out with a lot of the Steelers then – Larry Brown, Webster, Kolb, Kruczek out at the Red Bull.
Well, in ’82 Larry went up to Tom Modrak and Dick Haley and told them they needed to take a look at this kid they were working out with. They brought me in and I had a good workout so they signed me. It came down to me and this running back from Illinois, and Mr. Rooney said they should give the local kid a shot. I had a good camp after that but it was a numbers game. They drafted Walter Abercrombie and had Franco on the roster so they released me and the Detroit Lions picked me up.
What happened after that?
Detroit had a running back then – Ricky Kane – who was holding out. Once he signed I was released. I went and played then for the Michigan Panthers in the USFL. There were a lot of Steelers on that team – Dornbrook, Petersen, McGriff….I left there to sign with Cincinnati but that ended up not working out.
Rollie Dotsch then became the head coach of Birmingham in the USFL. I negotiated a contract with them but then the league folded. So I went back and played more semi-pro ball before the Steelers signed me again in ’87.
Larry Brown – he was the one who got it all started for me.
As a coach, what coaches influenced how you coached – and how so?
You know what I remember? In ’82 Tony Dungy was the defensive backs coach and he would stay after practice and throw me some passes. Kolb had just retired and was coaching then. They both helped me out a lot – I was a young guy and didn’t know a lot. They taught me life lessons – to keep my head about me and work hard and see what happens when you did.
Noll was a hard-nosed guy. He took no crap from nobody. They all taught me to work hard and do what I could do and see what comes of it.
I told my kids the same thing – and the kids I coached. Work hard – you have to to get somewhere. I took the rough route. I quit college and played semi-pro ball. I just worked hard. And even if you don’t make it, it still teaches you life lessons that are important. If you get a job and you’re supposed to show up at eight – show up at seven. You have to work hard to be successful.
Looking back on the strike season – how did the coaches put that team together with all of you guys coming in from different places?
We were coming in from everywhere yeah. Some guys didn’t play a long time and some were vets that played a while. The vets knew. I remember being interviewed when we were practicing in Johnstown. I told them I just wanted a shot to get back in. I talked to Cowher then – he was coaching then in Kansas City. If it didn’t work out in Pittsburgh he was going to bring me in to Kansas City.
What was Bill Cowher like back then?
Cowher was high-strung. We played football on the same team in Carnegie and basketball too. I was varsity with him on the football team – I wasn’t varsity on the basketball team though. He and I had our scuffles. He wanted to prove he was tough and I wanted to be as tough as he was. We’d go play basketball together at Ingram Park.
How was he as a basketball player?
He was…ok. He wasn’t great! He brought that football mentality to basketball, let’s put it that way!
Did any of the veteran players take you under their wing in ’87 and help you out?
By ’87 I had been around a little. I knew what we – what I – had to do. Back in ’82 the vets helped out the younger players with everything, Even Bradshaw would throw balls around after practice. The entire organization was like that.
When I was there in ’82 I’d bring my younger brothers around with some of the neighborhood kids to Three Rivers. We’d all go in the locker room and Art Rooney would be there with his cigar. He talked to them all for 30 minutes and then would give them a ball to throw around on the field.
When I went to Detroit I never saw the Fords around. It was a different organization. The vets in Pittsburgh acted the same way as Art. They helped you out and cared about you. I give the credit to the Rooneys – it was how they ran things.
Any fun memories that stand out of your time there?
In Latrobe after practice Lambert would come up to us. We’d all be standing around and he’d tell you a stupid joke and you had to laugh. He’d stare at you like he was about to go at it with you until you did!
Steve Apke was my roommate on away games. His son played for the Washington Commanders. His wife was a track star and I joke with him that his son has his mother’s speed!
Any other memories stand out?
They were just all good memories. My first contract was for $25,000 – with a $1,000 signing bonus. I thought I was on top of the mountain! Now guys are getting $30 million and aren’t happy. All my memories except getting cut were great.
Rollie Dotsch – as soon as I made the call to him when he became the head coach in Birmingham he remembered me. He was the offensive line coach in Pittsburgh but he still remembered me. That’s the way they all were.
The Rooneys used to send us Christmas gifts – Steelers sweaters. I remember the day before a Falcons game I went to Church and saw the Rooneys there. I left and saw them at the hotel the next day. They told me they saw me and talked to me a while. They made me feel like family. That’s how they were.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
