First off, what have you been up to since your time playing football?
Currently, I’m in education. I was briefly doing some coaching, but life happens. I got married and took some time away from coaching to establish a family life. Then I had a daughter in 2015 so I took more time to be a dad, then never looked back after that.
I do miss it, but I wanted to prioritize my life, and the time you have to invest in coaching, even at the high school level – it just took too much time away from my family. That was my stance anyway.
Now, I teach Economics here in Georgia at the high school level. I want to get into administration when the time comes. I see myself staying in education in some capacity.
Was the post-NFL transition difficult?
It was tough – it’s funny because I just saw a buddy from college and we spent a lot of time talking about this. On the surface it all looks fine – I mean I’m not walking around unshaven like Tom Hanks from Castaway! But a lot of people don’t understand the emotional toll. I started playing football since I was 14. You have friends built in at every level and you knew your routine.
After Pittsburgh it was like, “What do I do now?” I split my season between Pittsburgh and NFL Europe. I had seen Arena Football and thought about playing there. A former coach of mine told me I wouldn’t enjoy it, that it wouldn’t compare to the NFL since I played in the NFL first. I was able to do it for a couple of years, but he was right. It wasn’t the same. At that time I started seeing my window of opportunity closing.
You saw the Arena League as a bridge back to the NFL?
I did – I think I knew at the time that it wouldn’t really work out but I didn’t want to accept it. I hoped playing there would show teams I could play and I’d get that magical call from an NFL team, but that didn’t happen.
How did you end up in Pittsburgh after college in the first place?
After school I was really set on Kansas City or Green Bay. Pittsburgh wasn’t in the picture. Russ Grimm came to my pro day but never met with me or worked me out. I just think that’s how Pittsburgh operates. They are very organized and knew what they wanted.
My agent told me before the draft that if I wasn’t drafted by the fourth or fifth round we should hope I don’t get drafted so I could go where I wanted to go. Kansas City already told me they weren’t drafting interior offensive linemen, but that they wanted to sign me after the draft, get me on the practice squad and to go to NFL Europe and then I’d have a great chance to make the 53 the next season.
But then Pittsburgh called. I couldn’t turn them down. It was Pittsburgh – and I thought my chances for longevity would be the best there.
Anyone help take you under their wing when you got there – and how so?
Simmons, Ross, Vincent, Okobi – the whole line really, but those guys in particular.
Keydrick Vincent helped me to ease my mind and worry about playing and not that other stuff. Oliver Ross made me comfortable in the city. Not the glitz and glamour – just things like getting around the city. As a rookie even transportation was tough – he gave me a loaner car to use. His experience – coming in too as an undrafted free agent who played in Europe – that was instrumental for me – he was able to show me some of the ins and outs.
Simmons – he was drafted in the class before mine. His cousin and I played together – so he and I were kindred spirits.
And Chukky Okobi – I was there to take his spot, but he helped me learn the playbook and the do’s and don’ts – the nuances of the game. The NFL is so much faster than college – you have to know the playbook and have a high football IQ. I always felt I had a high football IQ, but he and Russ Grimm – the greatest offensive line coach I ever saw – they showed me how to read a defense from the back forward, so I could understand what the defensive line was going to do based on the defensive backs’ alignment.
Any Pittsburgh memories stand out most to you?
One of the best was well after Pittsburgh, when I was playing in Vegas for the Arena League. It was the NBA All-Star weekend and I was just hanging out when I heard someone yelling my name. I turned around and it was Hines Ward. He remembered me from my short time there and we we hung out and talked for a bit.
I was an under-the-radar type of guy – that’s really how I liked it. But that showed to me what kind of person Hines was, and about the organization as well. That he remembered me….and the college feel the organization had.
I tell kids now that when you reach the pro level you have to balance having that team mentality with an individual mindset. You have to look out for yourself and be a little selfish too. You need to balance that more than when you are in the NFL.
When I caught up with Hines though – that blew me away. That he remembered me when my stay there was short.
Any guys you faced there that stand out to you?
Casey Hampton – he looked like a butterball! But he was one of the best athletes I ever saw. He was much shorter than me – maybe 5’10”. And I consider myself a very strong guy. But he was much stronger, shorter, and could run with the linebackers.
That whole defensive line – I hated them all but I appreciated all of them!
Also, I was in NFL Europe and James Harrison was there with me. That year I was cut and he ends up being the Defensive Player of the Year later in his career.
What was Harrison like then?
He was the same guy as he was in Pittsburgh. No nonsense. He was there on a mission. He had a mindset that was beyond most players. A lot of guys there felt like the NFL Europe was the NFL – that they had arrived. Harrison was there to be seen – to put in the work.
He and Kendrell Bell were the only two guys I know where coaches would tell me I better buckle up my chinstrap and be sure I see them before they see me when we line up against each other. I’ve seen much bigger guys hit Harrison and their knees just buckle. And Bell – I just wish he could have played longer.
What happened when you were released – what did they tell you?
Before the last preseason game I had a lot of guys come up and tell me they thought I made the 53. I thought I did too. But it was a numbers game, Mike Mularkey told me. Unfortunately for me Hartings lasted longer than many thought he would and Chukky was there. It is what it is.
It’s funny, the 2020 season one of the last guys I coached in high school was signed by the Steelers – Brandon Walton. That stuff helps with the post-football transition for me. Football is not completely out of my system. It helps me to see guys that are going to be special and to give them some nuggets that can help them progress beyond how my career went. Most kids don’t even know that I played in the NFL. But seeing some that I helped use that information wisely makes me feel good.
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