First, let me know what you’ve been up to since football?
I started pre-football. I own an insurance brokerage, mortgage brokerage, and have owner interests in a number of other businesses as well.
My dad was a retired military guy. He worked at Merrill Lynch after retiring and talked to me about getting into the insurance business. I was in high school – he said if I wanted to spend money I had to make money and told me I need to get my insurance license. I was an alpha male kind of kid and he was a retired Air Force General, so we butted heads a lot. I finally agreed though.
One day he called me when I was in college and told me I needed to meet with a couple of guys for an hour for an insurance sale. I took the check and sent it to my dad after I was done. A week or so later I got a check from him for $3,000. I asked him what it was for and he told me it was my commission and asked if I could do that a couple times a month. I said “Yeah!”
How did you end up in Pittsburgh initially?
Well, I was recruited a ton in high school. I had a terrible GPA but got a 1400 on my SATs. They had the sliding scale then for NCAA eligibility so I was able to get into a good college – in fact I was one of the case studies that ended up causing colleges to have a floor GPA requirement!
But, I ended up in a bad car accident at the end of my Senior year. I lost a lot of the feeling in my lower extremities. Many schools saved their offers – Central Washington University wanted to as well. I was ready to go to Florida State – they were honoring their offer – then the Central Washington University coach talked me into staying after all.
My Senior year at Washington State Coach Erickson was coaching the Seahawks and came into our locker room. He told me if I wasn’t drafted they’d give me an offer. Jon Kitna was headed there – Jon and I knew each other since we were kids. We played against each other from Pee Wee Football through high school.
What was Jon like?
His high school offensive line was so bad he could never throw the ball. He came to Washington State as a linebacker but redshirted with the quarterbacks. One day he ripped a 60-yard bomb – the fist day of practice. We all looked around to figure who threw it!
Jon and I – we never really got along. I was friends with his younger brother – but we never got along. But I respected him. He could throw five picks and still be the most confident guy on the field. He had so much confidence.
We were both kind of arrogant guys then – but I think we’ve both changed a lot since then.
So what happens after college?
After the draft I still hadn’t heard anything from any NFL teams. I had a local agent and that was it. I ended up thinking I’d become a high school teacher and got an offer to teach for $36,000 and said “Whoah I can’t do that!” Then I applied to the sheriff’s office and got an offer for $70,000 and had a date to go to the academy in July.
Then I got a call asking me why I didn’t show up to Seattle’s mini-camp yesterday. I never saw an invite but they told me to come in the next day. I sat with the linebackers and looked at the depth chart. I went to Coach Erickson and thanked him for the opportunity but there was no way I was passing up the guys in front of me on the depth chart.
He asked me then why I was lining up with the linebackers? He wanted me at safety. He saw me in run support and and thought I had good hips and could play safety.
Did anyone help you there to make that adjustment?
Eugene Robinson was there and he and I became friends while I was there until I was cut after the first game. What happened was – Rick Mirer could never tell the difference between a two and three and in practice threw the ball behind a receiver who was crossing my path. I tried to let up but I hit the guy and broke his jaw by accident. I felt horrible – it ended his career and it was a guy they really liked – someone they had on their developmental squad the prior year. Erickson pulled me in and told me the offensive coaches wanted me cut and the defensive coaches wanted me to start! But he had to release me.
He told me he’d try to help me out though and got me an agent. After that I went to work at the sheriff’s office – I didn’t hear from any teams. Then I got a call from my agent saying the 49’ers wanted to sign me. I flew out to San Jose when I got another call saying since then my rights were traded to Philadelphia, then again to Pittsburgh, all in the same day!
What happened after that?
I landed in Pittsburgh and my agent met me there. I was there in my typical attire – sweatpants and t-shirt. My agent asked me where my suit and tie was.
Well, I didn’t have one, so I met with Cowher, the Rooneys and some other people dressed in sweats. We worked out a deal – they wanted to put me on the developmental squad then have me play in London for a year.
I sat on the Steelers practice squad and it was intense. My favorite and worst memory of Bill Cowher was then. As a linebacker your first couple of steps are downhill – it’s like a muscle memory that’s hard to forget when you’ve been doing it for years. Now at safety I was having trouble breaking that downhill first step. The third or fourth time I finally did it and stepped backwards and Cowher ran up to me, grabbed my facemask and gave me a hug and told me that from then on if I stepped forward again I’d be on a plane out of Pittsburgh!
But you did it right!
That was Cowher. He was intense. Once on punt coverage I leveled a guy and as I was coming off the field Cowher ran up to me and told me it was an awesome play. Then he told me that the next time, I should do these other things. To him there was never a perfect play. There was always something you could do to improve. He felt you should never let anything be the best you could do.
Did anyone in Pittsburgh help you at all?
Kordell and I became good friends. But I got hurt in London and was on IR most of the year and rehabbed at home. I was there for home games and that was about it.
Kordell and I talked a lot though. I tried to hide what I was doing on the field as a safety – to disguise things. But Kordell told me I was like a kindergartener’s book. He was able to read what I was doing easily. I would show my coverage with my body language – a two versus three, rolling sky – I was giving it away. He would help me with those nuanced things.
After a while he’d get pissed off at me because I started being able to read him too when we were on the scout team showing coverage. I picked him off a few times and was able to show him what I was seeing. He was especially easy to read when he was going to his hot route and I would cheat towards those routes.
Who were some of your biggest mentors?
Most were at the high school level really. Craig Puki played for the 49ers and he coached me. Charlie Blake too – he was old school. Michael Grant was a guy who trained a lot of us in Washington. He only had a short time in the NFL but was a Nike trained speed guy.
In Pittsburgh the Rooneys and Cowher taught us that no one was bigger than the team. No matter who you were you were as big as anyone on the team. That mindset has pushed me in all that I’ve done. That you can always learn and get better and that it’s not about one person – it’s about the team. If you have a good game and lose or if you have a bad game but your team wins. It’s all about the team.
Any fun memories you can share?
One fun one was with Kordell. He was a huge Allen Iverson fan and one day we decided to go to Philadelphia to catch a 76’ers game. The home office set us up with a visit – we were able to go to the locker room and meet the players. Well, it turned out Iverson was a huge fan of Kordell’s too. Both traded jerseys – it was like watching two kids in a candy store. I told him I didn’t know which of them had more fun and Kordell told me it was the best day of his week.
It’s funny – most NFL players are just like you and me. We’re fans too. I remember when I first got to Pittsburgh I hadn’t even bought groceries yet. I was eating at a local restaurant close to where I was living and was waiting for the check. After a while I flagged down the waitress and asked her for it. She told me “Honey – Steelers players don’t pay here!”
I was shocked – I had no idea how she even knew I was a Steeler. I wasn’t a big name player for sure. She told me fans knew who every player was – she even rattled off my college stats. And this was before Google!
Any last thoughts of your time there?
My wife once was at a hotel and a man had asked her a question and she ended up telling him that I had played for the Steelers – but he probably wouldn’t know who I was since I was there such a short time. But he did and rattled off how may career went.
My wife called me and said “You’re right. Steelers fans do know everything about the Steelers!”
I have friends who played for different NFL teams but they all say the Steelers fans are the most loyal. It’s just the city – it’s a special place. Being a Steeler – even for a short time – even if your contribution like mine was insignificant – it’s a family bond. You don’t get that anywhere else except maybe in the military. It’s for life. I’m blessed for every moment of it. I wrote off an NFL career in college – the fact that I was able to put on an NFL jersey and be in an NFL locker room is amazing.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
