First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your playing days?
I did some sales, teaching and coaching in Atlanta then got into construction information sales. When 911 happened I came to Pittsburgh and became the Chaplain for Pitt for their athletes.
How did that come about?
I backed up Jon Kolb in ’76. He was on the board of the Fellowship for Christian Athletes and I would sometimes talk to him when I sought some advice. He told me a chaplain position opened up with the Coalition for Christian Outreach and they and I met. They hired me as the chaplain and I worked with them for eight years – with all the athletes at Pitt until Dave Wannstedt got there. He brought in his own chaplain so I worked with all of the other teams except football that last year or so. I throughly enjoyed that work.
After that I worked for the Billy Graham Association for five years in development then coached the high school football team at Canon McMillan for one-and-a-half years. But the offensive coordinator I hired started undermining me so I approached the athletic director to talk about firing him. But he brought in five of his own guys so the athletic director asked if I would resign instead since he didn’t want to fire five guys when he could just replace one. For $10,000 it wasn’t worth it so I said “Sure, good luck!” He ended up firing all five after that season anyway!
After that I did some leadership training with my wife but that dried up with Covid, so I got my real estate license and I’m trying that now.
Who were some of the mentors you feel shaped the way you coached and approached football?
My high school coach in Japan, Bob Foster. He passed away nine years ago but we stayed in touch up until then. He was influential to me – he was tough on us but you could tell he loved us. He would explain why we did things – why you stayed low and moved your feet this way or that – not just what to do.
And of course at Penn State Joe Paterno was great and his assistants were tremendous. He was tough on us too during the week but it made it worthwhile when we played on Saturdays.
In Seattle, Jack Patterson was controlling and tough. I didn’t like him as much – especially since he cut me!
I know your time with the Steelers was shorter but anything there you remember about the coaching?
Chuck Noll didn’t like rookies. And I sprained my foot so I couldn’t train after that. I couldn’t run on it. Vito Stellino then asked me to do a rookie training camp diary for the paper. I thought it was for the team – I didn’t know. Chuck didn’t like that and told me to stop. He and I just didn’t end up seeing eye-to-eye. At the end of camp he traded me to Seattle. They had a good offensive line and drafted Ray Pinney too so they didn’t need another rookie lineman – I think they just figured it was good to get something for me.
You also coached the Pittsburgh Passion – how did that come about?
While I was with my chaplaincy at Pitt, the Passion’s owner Teresa Conn approached me about coaching. They wanted an upstanding guy they knew they could trust and who they felt could relate well to the women. She asked me the first two years but I said no, but the third year we talked and I took the job. It didn’t take a lot of time so I figured why not? It didn’t pay much but it gave me a chance to do my coaching thing and we ended up going undefeated. We beat Cleveland three times and won the national championship. It was a great time. They had a great staff and the women were so much easier to coach than many of the kids I coached!
You were born and lived overseas in Japan – how did that shape who you became as a player and coach?
I think just being in a different part of the world and experiencing different people. The Japanese people were humble and had a sense of honor. It was a great experience dealing with different people from around the United States too. We were all the kids of military parents. It made us more well-rounded and able to relate to different people easier, I think.
How did your faith impact who you were as a player and coach?
I think I was a better player because I played to honor God. Not for myself. I know football is about hitting and blocking people and getting them on the ground. Faith was just a part of who I was. I didn’t cuss – I probably would have if I didn’t know Christ. I didn’t need to throw f-bombs or anything – I knew who I was.
Were you surprised to be drafted by the Steelers in ’76?
I wasn’t really surprised no. Chuck Noll and Dan Radakovich flew down to Hershey for my workout. I was a defensive lineman my Senior year at Penn State and I think they wanted to see if I could play offensive tackle. They wanted to see if I could kick-step backwards. I was more surprised I went in the third round because I was changing positions.
I remember I was staying at my parents friends’ house. I had just made a tunafish sandwich when I got the call. They told me all the details of how the contract process would work and when camp started. I hung up the phone and yelled and danced by myself around the house! It wasn’t like the ESPN draft days you have now!
The next day I met with Jim Boston at Howard Johnsons to go over the contract. It was a simple discussion, believe me.
Were there any guys that helped mentor you when you got there?
Oh yeah. Jon Kolb and Loren Toews both, even though Loren was a linebacker.
They helped me with my faith and showed me how to be a professional. What to expect and how to deal with people. Jon for example helped me learn how to handle Ernie Holmes in his pass rush. He weighed 50-to-60 pounds more than I did.
How did you handle that?
Stay low and pray!
Any good memories of your time there?
There were good, caring guys there. I remember as a Senior in college I never drank at all. The Steelers then, they had that night when they made all the rookies get drunk then sing to the team. The next day Noll would kick everyone off the practice field because they were in no condition to practice.
Well, I told Jon that I didn’t feel comfortable doing that – I didn’t drink. Jon told me I should just follow my conscience so I skipped it. The next day of course Noll kicked everyone off field to sober up. But no one said anything to me – no one gave me any grief. Maybe Jon spoke to them, I don’t know.
One I love sharing too. At Penn State we all had to memorize the fight song to perfect pitch. When the Steelers veterans had all the rookies sing their school fight songs, I got up and belted out the song. Dick Hoak, Jack Ham, Franco Harris, Radakovich – they all stood up, hands over their hearts. Then Joe Greene stood up and yelled at me to stop singing. He told us “We don’t want to hear that Penn State crap!”
And one good one on Dan Radakovich. We played in Dallas and when we landed we all took the bus to the hotel. I just remember Dan with his leisure suit, shirt unbuttoned down to his navel, a gold medallion hanging down from his neck and sunglasses on. He looked like Don Johnson from Miami Vice, except he was way too old to dress like it. We all laughed at that.
I liked Dan. He was tough but nice. I went to his funeral – his wife is a sweetheart. He gave me a tryout with the Rams when I was cut from Seattle, then a tryout with Denver after that. I ended up playing or trying out with him for three different teams.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
