First, can you let us know some of the things you got involved with since your time in the NFL?
There’s not much to do now with Covid – just staying at home really. But after football I worked for the military for 35 years doing charity work for them – helping with the Special Olympics and the school.
You also got involved in professional wrestling – how did that happen?
I needed a job! I was living in Virginia Beach and met the owner of the wrestling company there. He told me he thought I could be good at wrestling. I went to the wrestling school and got in shape – learned how to wrestle. I enjoyed it but I was on the road every day. It was too much traveling, I could do all the stuff and liked it, it was just too much time on the road.
You are one of a handful of players who never played college ball but excelled in the NFL. How did that happen?
I played in the Continental League in Norfolk Virginia. I had a friend who called me and told me they were looking for players and that I should try out. I told him I was more interested in basketball but I tried out and made the team.
Three years after that I was signed by the Rams after trying out for them. They traded me to the Raiders. Tommy Prothro was the head coach of the Rams then and he talked to me for about 30 minutes – he told me he was trading me because he thought I could make the Raiders team.
What was the issue in staying with the Rams?
They had a lot of guys there. Fred Dryer, Merlin Olsen…they had too many good guys on the defensive line there. They were too deep.
Who helped you to make the adjustment to the NFL – any mentors?
A lot of guys helped. Fred and Merlin with the Rams. I used to watch them and follow their lead. Then they’d talk to you and show you what to work on.
With the Raiders it was the same thing. Carleton Oaks was a friend of mine on the Raiders before he was traded, and he worked with me. And the things I learned playing in the Continental League carried over to the NFL of course. The biggest adjustment was just knowing I had to work harder than everyone else to make the team. If a guy who played in college worked 100%, I had to go at 110%. I had to play harder than anyone else since I didn’t have that college experience.
Were you ready for that Steelers rivalry at first?
The thing is, the Steelers were the first team I played against in the NFL. You had to bring two lunches to play them – they were a tough club. Back in the 70’s it was the Steelers, Raiders and Miami.
When I started I was only 245 pounds – after playing them I knew I had to gain more weight. It was a dogfight the whole day – like gladiators battling. You had to play hard every play.
I played end and tackle. It’s a tough road when you don’t play college football. The guys would tell me there’s no way a guy who didn’t play in college could play well against them. I had to show them. It’s funny too, because later on I became friends with many of those guys when we did charity and autograph signing events – L.C. and those guys. I remember a long time ago smoking cigars with Mike Webster and just talking about those games.
Any good memories stand out to you from those games?
One of the best ones was when I was chasing Franco. He was trying to get outside of me but I was pretty fast. I ran him over near the Steelers sideline and ended up tumbling into the benches there and hitting my head. They all had to come over and help me back onto the field.
I also remember blocking on kickoffs. This was when I was still trying to make the team. I ended up leveling their kicker – Roy Gerela. I hit him too hard and never had a chance to apologize to him. So let me take this opportunity now to say I’m sorry to Roy!
How did John Madden prepare you for those games?
The thing with the Steelers was you always knew it would be a hard game. We’d start preparing two weeks ahead of time. We watched a lot of film. He’d tell us it was going to be a tough game – like playing Denver. We had to adjust to Denver’s altitude in advance – and he’d tell us we had to prepare the same way for the Steelers and prepare well in advance for those games too.
We were never allowed to go to the bar downstairs and get drinks for road games but we never wanted to for those Steelers games anyway. We knew we’d need the rest.
Were there guys on the Raiders that you enjoyed watching and playing with more?
I couldn’t watch the defensive guys play since I was on the field with my back to most of them. But I liked watching Art Shell, Upshaw, Otto – watching them go up against Greene, L.C., Ernie Holmes….I learned from the Steelers linemen by watching them play those guys. I got some tips from watching them – I told Joe that.
Do you watch NFL games now? What do you think of the NFL now and of the Steelers-Raiders teams today?
It’s a totally different game now. Back then you could hit the quarterback. You can’t do that now. The quarterback is very protected now. I used to love chasing down quarterbacks and if I caught them I was going to throw them down. I didn’t want to hurt anyone – I just loved playing football.
The Raiders now – Gruden is a good coach. I think they’ll blow today’s Raiders-Steelers rivalry out of proportion but it will still be a good, close game.
In fact, I have a friend at church who is a Steelers fan. He invited me over to watch the game next week. I told him I would come over and bring pictures of me tackling Bradshaw!
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
