First, can you let me know what you’ve been doing since your NFL days?
Basically I’m retired now- just trying to enjoy my life. I’m not doing much of anything else. After I was done playing I worked for the Browns front office until ’94 when they moved to Baltimore. After that I started a career in real estate and mortgages. But when that all fell through the bucket I left and came to Florida. I coached high school for a year or so and now I spend time with my grandkids and kids.
Was the post-NFL transition difficult?
I’m still seeing doctors on my NFL concussion case so that’s been difficult.
Outside of that the transition hasn’t been hard. I was able to set up my own schedule and do my own thing. I wasn’t making the kind of money I did when I played but I was able to be successful and continue to live a good life.
How did you end up in Cleveland after being drafted by New England?
When I was in New England a lot of guys got injured. Coach Chuck Fairbanks talked to me and told me they wanted to put me on IR so they could manage those other positions. The wide receivers coach was Perkins and he talked to me too about it. They both told me they wanted to keep me and that they’d bring me back after three or four weeks when guys got healthy again, but they knew the kind of guy I was and that I wanted to play. They told me some teams had interest in me – Cleveland especially. So it was my choice to stick around and go on IR or get released so I could sign elsewhere.
Well, I wanted to play so they released me and Cleveland picked me up right away off the waiver wire.
How was it, going to the Browns?
They needed a kick returner. They had Paul Warfield there who was my idol, so I was happy to go there and be with him.
It was weird though. They drafted Dave Logan round two, but before the draft they came and timed me in the 40 – I ran a 4.25. I thought they would draft me. So it was weird being there with Dave.
After that first season they brought in Sam Rutigliano and he spoke to all of us and told us it was open season. That there were no starters – everyone had a chance to start. That gave me motivation – I felt that was my opportunity.
Did you know much about the Steelers-Browns rivalry before then?
I didn’t know anything about it. When I got there there were two big rivalries – Pittsburgh was right down the turnpike and Cincinnati was right next door. Those were the two big games on the schedule – we were always pumped up for those games.
We didn’t do much different for those games – we stayed with the gameplan – it was just a big rivalry. Those games were like championship games. Pittsburgh just had a helluva team then – Bradshaw, Swann, Stallworth – and the defense was the best of all time.
Any moments that stand out most to you about those games?
I felt that I was just as good if not better than other players. I did the best I could do and whatever I was asked to do. Covering kickoffs and playing receiver – I didn’t care who I was up against.
I always played well against the Steelers. Blount was the best cornerback I played against. He had size and good speed and good feet – and he had those long arms. You had to work so hard to beat him off the line. And then they had Edwards and Shell at safety – Edwards and I were friends.
The one play I remember most is recovering a fumble after a punt return. I think that’s the one time we won in Pittsburgh. I had some good games – mostly then on special teams since I backed up Dave and Paul mostly then. In the 80’s I played more receiver – that’s when guys like Blount had already left.
Any other fun memories?
Every time we played in Cleveland there were tons of Steelers fans, and when we played in Pittsburgh lots of Browns fans went. Those games were televised nationally – there was a lot of fun and excitement. It was always a challenge – we had to be at the top of our game.
In New England we played the Raiders in preseason. Grogan threw a pass high and I went up and got it. Jack Tatum met me there and knocked me out. The next thing I remember I woke up at the hospital trying to figure out where I was!
What do you think of the NFL today?
Now the game is a business. They are paid so much money – they’ve taken a lot away from the defense. You can’t touch receivers now. When I played they could chuck your ass all the way downfield and could take your head off. Now they have five yards then have to let you go.
Blount would beat your ass all the way downfield. Now it’s more like chess- you have to out-think defenses. You have to be more creative and take what they give you. Back then it was more straightforward – more about hard-nosed football. If you had a concussion they’d give you smelling salt and ask you what two plus two was then send you back out there.
What do you think about the how the NFL and NFLPA have done for you and other retired players?
I’ll never forget when I played with turf toe – it was as big as my elbow! But you didn’t want to miss a game then or they’d bring someone else in to replace you! I got so many cortisone shots….I played with turf toe, a separated shoulder so bad I couldn’t lift up my right arm…
Now, they treat us retired players like has-beens. Like with concussion issues – there’s no reason I and others have to jump through hoops. They just hope we all die out before they have to pay us. I was diagnosed with dementia in 2013. But then the NFL decided I needed to see a psychologist instead.
It’s sad, the way they treat us former players. We made this game. I played with broken fingers ands toes – it’s a disgrace to fans and players. I enjoy the games today but it’s totally different now. The lack of respect they have for us is sad.
Read more by former Steelers via the book Steelers Takeaways: Player Memories Through the Decades. To order, just click on the book:
I really enjoy hearing from former rivals and the respect between the teams. He’s spot on about the disgraceful way the NFL treats former players. Those guys sacrificed their bodies and helped make the league what it is today.