First, can you let me know what you’ve been up to since your time in the NFL?
Well, in 1978, when I was still playing, I started a lumber business here in Ruston, Louisiana. I grew up around lumber and construction. My father was an NFL player – he started a lumber company of his own after he played, so it was something I knew and enjoyed. I always intended to go back to Ruston after football and enjoy life there after I was done with football – to go back to where I was raised.
How did the lumber business start?
My brother was on the track to becoming a partner at a law firm – he went to law school but was just a cowboy at heart. He figured once he made partner he’d never get out – I mean, he had an undergraduate degree in animal husbandry – that shows you how different he was from most people.
So when he had a chance to go in with me and a friend to buy a lumber business instead he did that. I went in with them in 1978 while I was still playing and went back there when I retired.
Was the post-NFL transition tough?
I grew up in the football world. My father was Dub Jones who played in Cleveland and the NFL for 10 years. He actually played with Chuck Noll. After football he coached from ’62 to ’69, then we moved from Cleveland back to Ruston. He had seven kids so once we were all in college and out of the house he decided it made sense to move back to Louisiana – especially since my brother and I both played college football there.
I was a ballboy in Cleveland – my entire life was around football. I used to hide in Jim Brown’s locker and play with Otto Graham and Marion Motley. But as they say, there aren’t any happy endings in football. I was cognizant of the fact I would have to do something else after football.
I came home and made some money until the business got up and going and I could draw a salary from it. I had a hunting and fishing show on ESPN – all of that made the transition easier than it was for most. I knew it was coming even thought the ending was abrupt. I was playing for the Rams when I broke my neck at the ripe young age of 31. I’m just glad I have my health now.
What memories stand out most to you of those days – especially as they relate to the Steelers?
Back then we all wanted to back out of the Pro Bowl if we could- it was just another opportunity to get injured. In ’76 I couldn’t get out of it though! I remember walking on to the practice field and seeing nine of the 11 Steelers starters on the field. I said “I just played against all of you last week!”
They had such a fabulous defense. Every player up and down the line was a great player. The best player of them all in my opinion was Mel Blount. He effectively closed down half the football field. He was an underrated player – a tremendous player and without a doubt the most outstanding player on that defense and the best cornerback ever. Period!
And you were close with Terry?
Terry and I grew up together – he and I were roommates in our high school and college all-star games and played against each other in high school when he was at Woodlawn. He was at my house often.
Terry, Joe Ferguson, me, Doug Williams – a lot of us came from that area.
Terry and I were good friends but once we were playing it was all business. We would converse before games. He moved back about 40 miles from Rustin after he got remarried before he moved out to Dallas.
That’s the thing about football. You make great friends and competitors – and you may never see them again after you’re done playing. That’s the tough part of it. It’s crazy but I grew up with it. One day you’re seeing guys in the Cleveland locker room like Motley and Graham and the next day they’re gone. It’s just the way of life.
Any of those playoff game memories stand out to you?
The last two playoff games yeah. The first game in 1975 I was there for the first half but then I got hit with a helmet or knee in the back of my tricep when I was running and it chipped the bone. It was all swollen – they had to aspirate it at halftime and I couldn’t play the rest of the game. We were competitive at least that game.
The next time they beat us like red-headed stepchildren. We did beat them in Baltimore one year. But they were the best team over a four-to-five year run. They had two great receivers, running backs, offensive line….there was no weak spot on that team.
Any funny stories from those games?
I always got under Ernie Holmes’ skin. LC and I were good friends – we did commercials together. LC would ask me why I would do that- why I would antagonize Ernie? I told him that way I knew what he was going to do. When he was mad all he wanted to do was come after me and then at least we knew where he was going to be and what he was going to do!
Lambert also gets mad when I tell this story. But he had an idiosyncrasy. Whenever he put his right hand on his hip that meant he was going to blitz. He never did that unless he blitzed. When we beat Pittsburgh I was able to key on that on two successful plays.
When I told him that he told me no way – but I told him “Yes I did!” I studied film with Ted Marchibroda and he showed me how to see things like that. In fact that’s where Bill Belichick learned how to watch film – he was there then.
Any thoughts on the Hall of Fame?
Nah – my career…you have to win a Super Bowl to go to the Hall of Fame. And I was a good player when I was healthy but I was a bubble guy – I wasn’t healthy enough.
I used to be a linebacker and played like it when I played quarterback. That’s not a good thing! But no, had I stayed healthy, maybe – we had a great run. I just got too many injuries with the shoulder and neck.
What do you value most from your playing time?
It sounds terrible but what I remember and appreciate most are the people and teams I was on. Not the games. We weren’t the most talented team – we had one fast receiver and a good tight end and offensive line. But we weren’t great – I don’t mean that in a mean or bad way. We worked as an absolute unit – that’s why we were always competitive.
When I first started as a rookie I missed camp – Howard Schnellenberger was the head coach then and he was an excellent coach. But the next year we had a players’ strike – so both years we had no camp or offseason to work on. Then they fired Howard and it just became a bellyflop.
After that they hired Ted Marchibroda and we finally had a real offseason to work together. He and I went through the playbook in the offseason and had a good meeting of the minds. Then we started maturing.
We won our first game then lost our next four. We were competitive though in those losses. Then we won nine straight games to win the division before we lost to Pittsburgh in the playoffs. We had some wonderful games – an overtime win versus Miami and a win on a field goal late in the game.
Tell me more about those early days as a kid in Cleveland?
Otto Graham – Chuck Noll and Don Shula, Jim Brown. I grew up knowing them. I wish I knew enough then to have asked more questions and followed them more closely. I talked to Chuck a bit but not as much.
My father was good friends with Eddie Robinson at Grambling. I’d go with him in the offseason and work out there with those guys. We’d run seven-on-sevens all Summer. When training camp came it was easy!
Any thoughts on the NFL and especially the changes going on today?
My father told me that nine of his teammates were first generation American citizens and he had five Black teammates before baseball had Jackie Robinson. The NFL didn’t get the credit it deserved then.
Whooo! Would I have liked to play in the NFL today! I can’t imagine not worrying about getting hit. Back then you hit until the echo of the whistle was over!
But, I am very happy about the rule changes. I don’t need to tell you about the guys who had bad head injuries and what they went through. All of the rule changes – especially protecting quarterbacks and receivers from hits to the head – and no clubbing to the head – those are wonderful things. And the pay is even a better thing! We were well paid then, but nothing like what guys get paid now. I’m proud and happy for the players now.
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