First, can you let me know what you got into after football?
I’m not really doing a lot now – I retired over 25 years ago. I got into the motion picture industry – on the business side. It was my Summer job in high school – I was offered it then – it was sponsored by Allied Artists. I enjoyed that – it was pleasant work, with people making something. It was a good way to spend my time..
After my time in the service and football, I went back into the business. I got into the Director’s Guild – I was part of that. It made it easy to go from one studio and picture to another.
Was the post-NFL adjustment difficult for you?
It was quite the opposite for me. The picture business was all about long hours but it wasn’t physical at all. It was a lot of waiting for things. Football was the opposite.
At that time the money in football was nothing like it is today. The highest paid player then was $20,000. They make that just for showing up today! That’s why I ended up going to play in Canada – to earn more money there.
How did you learn you were drafted by Pittsburgh – and how did you adjust so well to playing safety – you had seven interceptions in 1954!
They called me and told me I was drafted. I tried to negotiate my salary but you had little choice then – no opportunities to negotiate. Even though I was third in the Heisman voting!
Walt Kiesling was the coach and they had also drafted Johnny Lattner who won the Heisman Trophy. They wanted him to shine – they gave me an opportunity to play halfback or safety and even though I played halfback in college, with Lattner there, I chose safety.
How did you become such a good safety?
When you are a single-wing halfback you have to watch the defense and know what’s going on. You’re calling the signals, passing the ball … you have to know everything. I also punted – you did everything back then.
So I learned how to watch defenses and understand their weaknesses and what they were doing. I studied defenses and that helped me more to play safety.
Also, my Senior year at UCLA I played both ways. You had to then due to the substitution rule – if you didn’t you couldn’t play for a half if you were substituted out. So I ended up playing some safety that last year.
Did anyone on the Steelers help you as well?
No one helped really. Honestly, I think they needed me more than I needed them. No one on the coaching staff knew as much about playing safety as my college coaches did. They didn’t really know the position.
What made you so effective then?
I think I just had some natural ability. I was reasonably fast – no one really knew that. I didn’t look fast but I was always faster than I looked. I ran a 10 flat 100 and the world record was 9.7. I could get to the ball quicker than most defensive backs could.
We played zone a lot. I could react quickly and felt like I was often in good position to intercept or knock the ball down a lot. By the end of the season teams weren’t throwing my way anymore.
Any interesting stories about your playing days?
I can’t remember so many in Pittsburgh. The most unusual one was when I played football in the service. I was stationed at Fort Ord and they had some folks come in and drat a lot of football players and assigned them to Fort Ord. There were five or six top college players there and eight or nine other really good professionals.
Well, we were going to our first game of the season for the football team. We were playing a semi-pro team – the San Francisco Windjammers. We took a bus and the coaches drove. The bus broke down about halfway there – it just so happens it broke down in front of a winery.
Well, we had to wait three or four hours for the next bus. We went in to the winery and they were having wine tastings. So we all had some wine – the professionals – we all had about six or seven tastings. So we got pretty merry while waiting for the bus!
Coach came up in his car later and saw us. He yelled at us – “You’re all drunk!” He made us sit on the bench and watch the game. The third string played – they were just servicemen who liked to play football. There was no score after the first quarter and it was 3-0 with three minutes left in the first half when he sent us in. We ended up winning 63-3! We scored 21 points in the last three minutes!
Any memories stand out there?
I don’t remember that much to be honest. I remember playing Cleveland and they had an excellent running back. A big, strong guy. He kept getting loose and I had to keep coming up and tackling him.
We had a fairly good team. And the fans were good to us. We sold out the stadium there. We just didn’t have a great coaching staff – the staff at UCLA was twice as good.
Did you get close with any of the players there?
I was married when I went to Pittsburgh. We basically all just played football then went our own way.
My teammates were very personable. There was no one I didn’t like – no bullies or hogs. Just a bunch of good guys. I spent most of the time off with my wife. When the season ended it was usually around the first or second week of December. We all left after that to go home. Training camp was only two or three weeks long. So we didn’t have a lot of time to socialize. I was California based. I was in Pittsburgh four months to play football then went back to California.
What happened after that season in Pittsburgh?
After Pittsburgh, that’s when I went into the service for two years and played at Fort Ord. I met some guys there that played in the CFL. When I was out of the service I called Pittsburgh to negotiate my return and also called British Columbia in the CFL to negotiate with them too. Vancouver paid me more so I went and played with them for three years.
The Pittsburgh experience was a good start to my career. If they could have offered me more I would have come back to Pittsburgh. I always had a soft spot for Pittsburgh.
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