First, what have you been up to since your NFL days?
Well, right now my partner – she and I are just trying to stay out of the rocking chair! I’m an historical nut about a lot of things and am proud of my three years in the NFL.
Getting there was a tough story. Just being able to play the league average of three years, then ending up as the best salesperson in Bear Stearns – that’s a book in the making! I sat on a number of boards including The National Football Foundation too.
You’re also speaking to the only guy you know that owns a soccer team in Mozambique! I took kids there that were shooting rhinos for money and created a 12-team league. I also have a four-team woman’s league. The kids benefit and the rhinos benefit. And I benefit from it too!
I still get up at three am to trade stocks in China! I’m still cooking! It’s funny too, because after you called me the other day I went to my box of stuff and found an old Sports Magazine issue from 1960 with Bobby Layne on the cover and an article there about a “Rookie who made it good.” That rookie was me!
How did you end up in Pittsburgh when you were drafted by the Giants?
I grew up in West Virginia and went to Rutgers on a Merit Scholarship with my three brothers. I plucked chickens and dug graves to pay for my food while I was at Rutgers.
I ended up being the highest scoring end in the country in 1957. The Giants drafted me to be a linebacker – Houston drafted me too. An oil guy in Houston told me to go play for them – they’d pay be twice as much as New York – $16,000! I asked him where the hell Houston was? They said Texas and I asked them where the hell Texas was!
But the story of how I got the the Steelers is a great one.
How did it start?
When I was in New York we played at Yankee Stadium. I was a kid from the hills of West Virginia and now I was getting dressed in what was Mickey Mantle’s locker. Thousands of people would be yelling at us when we played and I knocked the shit out of people before they hit me. That was always my motto.
There was a game in New York when Charlie Conerly was quarterback – he had Gifford and King there and Schnelker at tight end, but Schnelker was hurt so they put me in for him. With those other guys there was zero chance I was going to get a pass thrown to me as a rookie. But in the fourth quarter we were down by four and they put George Shaw in at quarterback and they called for an end-run trade-out left. Well, he threw the ball to me and some little shit tackled me finally at the 12 yard line. It was the only pass ever thrown to me. My yards per catch average was better than Jerry Rice’s – 58 yards!
But in ’62 what happened?
After the fourth game in ’62 Allie Sherman – that little shit – he called me into his office. He ruined the Giants – traded everyone away from Rosie Greer to Sam Huff! Grier, Big Daddy and Simpson were the only 300 pound guys even in the league then.
Well, I knew when Allie called me in and told me to bring my playbook it wasn’t good. Tom Scott was my roommate there – they had me room with him because they wanted me to learn from him how to play end and linebacker. He was one of the Suicide Seven for the Eagles later on.
Well, Tom taught me how to cross-reference defenses with offenses – looking at left and right formations. When Allie called me in I knew what was going on – I ripped every other page from the playbook and put them in my bag. When Allie asked for the playbook I asked why he wanted it. He told me I belonged to the Steelers now. I asked him how I could be traded since it was past the trading deadline. He told me they didn’t trade me – you just belong to them now. We gave you to them! I had no idea how it worked.
What happened then?
Buster Ramsey was the defensive coach at the time for the Steelers. He told me he wanted me to come in right away. I told him I couldn’t go until Thursday – I wasn’t even allowed to play until the following week. He told he wanted me on the nine pm flight that night out of LaGuardia – and he picked me up at the airport. Eight am the next day I was in the defensive meetings for Pittsburgh.
When Allie told me I was being given to Pittsburgh, I told him he didn’t want to send me there since we were playing them the following week. That Tuesday in Pittsburgh I was explaining to the team all of the Giants’ hot reads – the hot numbers. What 96 red was, 85 red…. Red was hot, yellow was something else. The Steelers were 13 point underdogs that game.
Ramsey had me stand beside him during the game. Sure enough, Y.A. Tittle called a red 96 to Schnelker. I told Ramsey what it was and he yelled it out and we intercepted. No kidding. We won the game and as we were walking off the field I walked past Sherman and gave him the middle finger and told him where to stick it! He just gave me a look and walked past me.
Any other times there stand out to you?
I was the new guy there and came in late. The Giants were a family before Sherman traded everyone away. That year to 1982 they didn’t have one winning season.
Pittsburgh was different. In New York after practices Gifford and the guys would put on their suits and go give a speech to some folks in the city or something. In Pittsburgh, we’d go to Bobby Layne’s house and we’d all drink a barrel of beer together. It smelled like a brewery! It was quite a different experience going from dressing in Mickey Mantle’s locker room to practicing on the Red Cross’ lot in South Park.
What was that like?
The South Park field was a pasture – it was roped off from cows that they tried to stop from coming in and pooping on the field. The locker room was in the basement of the Red Cross house. Mickey Mantle’s locker was 10×10 – you could walk into it. The Red Cross lockers were 2×4. Big Daddy Lipscomb’s locker was next to mine and he sat there while we all showered. He wouldn’t shower with us – and I couldn’t get to my locker because he was so big he blocked my way and I wasn’t going to ask him to move! I couldn’t get in to my locker until he showered.
That was the year Big Daddy died of an overdose. I suspect he wanted the shower to himself so he could shoot up there – he didn’t want anyone seeing him.
Pittsburgh brought in a lot of those guys from Baltimore. The rumor was many of them were caught stealing from other guys – they were all pretty naughty then. But we all were – none of us had media following us around like they do now.
What made you decide to stop playing in ’62?
I was hurting then – banged up. And I had a job on Wall Street that paid me much more as a trainee. So you do the math!
Any other memories stand out to you from your playing days in Pittsburgh?
When we went to the playoffs, they brought John Reger back. They told me I couldn’t play but I could travel with the team. That’s what happens when you come in late to a team like that. You don’t get to know guys that well. They had great comradery there – I just didn’t get the chance to know everyone that well. I went to parties and drank with them, but it was just hard getting to know the guys.
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